We have partnered with TradePub to bring you free industry magazines and resources - no coupons or credit cards required!
Visit: englishforums.tradepub.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sheilav
+
167642
Thu, 08 Dec 05 11:52 AM
The question was open and as stated- abortion do we really have a right? You can answer this question with a yes or with a big NO.
Sex has been in the heart of evolution. Sex is meant to be satisfying so that individuals will do it and their species will propagate. Yes! The original aim for sex is for PROCREATION that's why it has been said - "go and multiply". Through eras, the best species of each type of animal came to being because of sex. The best genes are remixed from each generation to produce the best individual. But people later realized that they only wanted the satisfaction of the act, not its possible consequence such as the possibility of pregnancy. Contraceptives were discovered to prevent fertilization but most would have 99% chance of prevention, how about the 1%, if that happens would the couple be ready to have a child? While on the first place, they only wanted sex not a child. So I hope people who go into sex should be prepared for a possible pregnancy because that 1% chance is real and I hope SEX should not be used only for mere pleasure or satisfaction, but they should moderate themselves and do it at the right time when they are ready to have children.
In the animal kingdom, there were some behaviours which were noted. Some of which as the eating of the sexual partner after sex- for some spiders so that their sap will help in the maturity of the young, the eating of the lion cubs by their fathers so that the lioness will continue to hunt for food. Can we consider the legalization of abortion in the same line? But we are not animals, we have evolved in the line of animals as the highest forms, for we are endowed with the knowledge of good and evil. Legal abortion to me is violating the right to life of the unborn child. As each individual has a right to life and so is the baby. God gave us the opportunity of using the WILL to do what is right and wrong. Why can't we chose the right?
If I AM THE UNWANTED CHILD ABOUT TO BE ABORTED, I will cry to God--to forgive this woman who wants to extinguish the life in me which is given by God. I hope I am the last she will abort. And I hope one day she will be a good mother to my brothers and sisters.
To all those contemplating for abortion, I HOPE YOU THINK TWICE before deciding. Nine months is not too long to wait. And maybe after conception, it will not be an unwanted child anymore.
Joined on
Thu, Oct 27 2005
New Member
20
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lazarus
+
169611
Wed, 14 Dec 05 12:54 AM
Sheilav--
Your entire premise teeters on the notion of your God, and your
presumption that you are able to understand exactly what your God
wants, which I think is ludicrous. For those of us on Earth, the
decision isn't so black-and-white, nor should it be, as nothing in life
is. Do you also feel that a baby medically fated to live
out its days in agony and eventual death should just do it?
Because your God says so? I don't, and my guess is I'm not
alone.
Here's a serious two-part answer to your question, "God gave us the
opportunity of using the WILL to do what is right and wrong. Why can't
we chose the right?"
1) He's your God, not mine. I think you have a right to
worship as you see fit, but please don't be so arrogant as to assume
you speak for the world's population when it comes to this.
2) The notion of "right" contains a lot of grey area.
I realize that someone with your religious beliefs thinks otherwise,
but unfortunately, I can't help but feel that this is another bit of
arrogance.
Try to understand that your belief system stems from your
interpretation of God. Now try to understand that there is an
enormous chunk of people in the world (including myself) who see
abortion as a very human issue. Then, perhaps, you'll understand why there is such a divide.
Lazarus
(yes, my name is meant to be ironic)
Joined on
Wed, Sep 28 2005
U.S.
Full Member
285
|
|
|
|
|
Sheilav,
3 yr 343 days ago
Lazarus- can you expound on HOW HUMANE IS ABORTION?
|
|
|
|
|
|
nona the brit
+
169849
Wed, 14 Dec 05 03:24 PM
SheilaV
He said it is a human issue.
Joined on
Wed, Sep 22 2004
England
Veteran Member
11,713
The name says it all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lazarus
+
169987
Thu, 15 Dec 05 02:43 AM
Thanks, nona.
But while we're posting followups, Sheilav, perhaps you can explain
your words here: "sex which is very satisfying whether it is thru rape
or as a consensual act."
I'm perplexed on a couple levels. One, are you really saying that
rape is somehow satisfying to the person being raped?! I really
hope not. That seems like a scary comment. Two, are you
trying to imply that pregnancy is some kind "payback" for pleasure
(through a consensual act only, naturally)? That doesn't seem to
be a terribly progressive view of childbearing to me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sheilav
+
170815
Sat, 17 Dec 05 01:25 PM
I never intended to make rape satisfying to the one who was raped but isn't it satisfying to one doing the act?
Yes, pregnancy from 'FREE unprotected SEX' is somehow a payback for abusing the freedom of having sex.
What do you believe in Lazarus, if you do not have a God?
How do you see yourself as a human being apart from animals? Do you see yourself as the most dominant species of the land?Well, we are, because of our intelligence, we have developed ways to be protected from other animals and nature. We are continuing to understand nature and all throughout what we could see is ,SURVIVAL is the key role to let the species propagate. But unlike animals, some opt to eradicate the species through intentional abortion. It took billions and maybe trillions of years for animals to put their young in their womb. Do you think it was just ACCIDENTAL? And after all these evolution, we still seek to kill our young thru intentional abortion? Natural abortion occurs maybe because of mutations in the genes but those fertilized eggs which survive after 10-12weeks are viable eggs that will be humans. (Age of gestation is computed from the first day of the last menstrual period not the day when one had sex). Can we not give the fertililzed egg/fetus a chance to SURVIVE? Life begins on fertilization, I believe another person is created on fertilization. Have you ever experienced being pregnant? You do not feel anything on the first 3 months of pregnancy, on ultrasound you see the earliest heartbeat at 6-8thwks of gestation ;on the 4th month you feel something is pinching your lower abdomen and on the 5th month there is a movement and you finally know there's somebody other than you in your body. It is another person. PLEASE RESPECT HIS RIGHT. I know you are familiar with the saying 'YOUR FREEDOM ENDS, WHEN MY RIGHT BEGINS'. So knowing the presence of another being inside, the MOTHER DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO AN INTENTIONAL ABORTION, but she has her options, I just hope she chose to do what is right. How come we fight for the unborn child? Because it cannot say how it feels inside the womb? Nobody defends him while inside the womb? NOBODY CRIES FOR HIM except those who chose to understand.
I can still praise animals because they kill primarily for survival. But some intelligently reason that it is good to have intentional abortion of healthy fertilized zygote/ or eggs (if given time can be babies) for REASONS OF CONVENIENCE. The following are true instances of those seeking to flush the baby out of their womb:
1-A married woman in her 30's seeks abortion because her husband who is working in a first world country is coming home, and she is pregnant from another man. So she wishes to flush out the baby to avioid the crisis of confronting her husband.
2. A woman in her 40's who has a working visa for a foreign country is seeking abortion because the time of her departure is near and she is 3 months pregnant.
3. A student in her teens is seeking abortion to escape the confrontation of strict parents.
4. Parents of a teenager are seeking abortion for the daughter because she is still 15 years old and the father is 17yo. They reason that they are too young to become parents.
Abortion is not allowed in our third world country. But I hope in those countries with legalized abortions, before undergoing the procedure there should be counselling, by then maybe the UNBORN CHILD OR FERTILIZED EGG will have a chance to LIVE just like you and me who are now confronting this issue. MAY GOD BLESS THOSE WHO SEEK ABORTION.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sheilav
+
170918
Sat, 17 Dec 05 05:54 PM
I would like to correct myself in my previous post that I agree that "pregnancy is a payback for pleasure." Unwanted pregnancy from a consensual act is a CONSEQUENCE OF THE SEXUAL ACT, it is not a payback, and so are sexually transmitted diseases like AIDS, Hepatitis B infection, Gonorrhea, Syphilis and others. Wouldn't you agree that these thriving organisms are telling us in a way to moderate our sexual appetite? They continue to survive because of our insatiable taste for sex. And so we are trying to discover thru the years newer and powerful antibiotics to contain them. Why can't we just discipline our sex life? But this is a totally different topic.
What then is your progressive view of childbearing, Lazarus?
I have been defending the right of the unborn child. Can you elaborate on the human issue of abortion? Also include the rights of the mother to undergo abortion as you and those who condone INTENTIONAL ABORTION would say that it IS A RIGHT and maybe, just maybe I will be convinced.
It is a right to remove a mole, skin tag, a tumor in our body but it isn't a right to remove a fertilized egg or fetus from the womb. Each of us came from a single egg fertilized by only one sperm, in the process- life is created. After fertilization, the mother didn't give the go signal to let the fertilized egg develop, it grew because it was programmed to grow. The message for growth is contained in the mixed genes of the new zygote to undergo mitosis or cell division. Some cells clumped together to form the brain first and all the organs follow. That's why life starts at conception not at the following weeks. These second generation of individuals are expected to be better than their progenitors in all aspects. Let us re examine our intentions for abortion. Is it just a means of escaping a problem or a means to end a crisis which has become a consequence of an act?
LET US GIVE LIFE A CHANCE. LET US CHOOSE LIFE RATHER THAN DEATH. And I hope Lazarus will choose to resurrect to life from the dead as what is said in the Bible. Hope you are not offended. Good day!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lazarus
+
171097
Sat, 17 Dec 05 11:51 PM
SheilaV--
Well, you've certainly given too much to respond to, but I'll address some of the issues you raise.
 Sheilav wrote: |
I never intended to make rape satisfying to the one who was raped but isn't it satisfying to one doing the act?
|
|
I don't think I should presume what a rapist might feel. And I don't think you should, either.
| Sheilav wrote: |
What do you believe in Lazarus, if you do not have a God?
|
|
I never said I didn't have a God. I said I didn't have your
God. That being said, no...I don't believe in what would be
considered a conventional God. I believe in the idea of human
beings coexisting without judgment.
| Sheilav wrote: |
But unlike animals, some opt to eradicate the species through intentional abortion.
|
|
Thought I'd point out that this line is where you lose half your
audience. You're confusing religion with science. This
statement (and many others that you make) illustrate how deep your
religious convictions are; they also illustrate how it is possible to
morph facets of science to suit a stance on religion.
"Eradicate" means "to do away with completely." I don't see how
people who have abortions are attempting to destroy the entire human
race. This is illogical.
| Sheilav wrote: |
It took billions and maybe trillions of years for animals to put their
young in their womb. Do you think it was just ACCIDENTAL? And after all
these evolution, we still seek to kill our young thru intentional
abortion?
|
|
You realize that you're using an argument based on the notion of evolution, right? If you believe that we are here as a result of evolution, then I'm not sure which Bible you're reading.
| Sheilav wrote: |
I just hope she chose to do what is right. How come we fight for the
unborn child? Because it cannot say how it feels inside the womb?
Nobody defends him while inside the womb? NOBODY CRIES FOR HIM except
those who chose to understand.
|
|
Do you understand that this is religious talk? Or has your
religion become such a necessary part of you that you can no longer see
the difference? What is "right" is not an absolute...unless you
are guided by principles given to you by some organized faith. I
don't agree that everyone's notion of what is "right" is the
same. It's also clear from this statement that you never
have known a woman who made a choice like this because her child had a
high medical probability of living a short, agonizing life. A
woman like this cries more genuine tears than can be counted. You
still have not addressed this point of mine. Why is that?
| Sheilav wrote: |
The following are true instances of those seeking to flush the baby out of their womb
|
|
Your list of reasons only convinces me that there are selfish and
scared people in all avenues of life. It does not convince me,
however, that a person who has an abortion must fit into one of these
profiles. Is this really how you choose to see the rest of
humanity? Does that extend beyond the issue of abortion?
| Sheilav wrote: |
MAY GOD BLESS THOSE WHO SEEK ABORTION.
|
|
If yelling made a person right, then you might have a chance. (In
other words, tone down on the caps...they only serve to paint you in a
bad light.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lazarus
+
171106
Sun, 18 Dec 05 12:19 AM
| Sheilav wrote: |
I would like to correct myself in my previous post that I agree that
"pregnancy is a payback for pleasure." Unwanted pregnancy from a
consensual act is a CONSEQUENCE OF THE SEXUAL ACT, it is not a
payback, and so are sexually transmitted diseases like AIDS,
Hepatitis B infection, Gonorrhea, Syphilis and others. Wouldn't you
agree that these thriving organisms are telling us in a way to moderate
our sexual appetite? They continue to survive because of our insatiable
taste for sex. And so we are trying to discover thru the years newer
and powerful antibiotics to contain them. Why can't we just discipline
our sex life? But this is a totally different topic.
What then is your progressive view of childbearing, Lazarus?
|
|
My progressive view of childbearing involves not comparing a baby with a disease like syphilis or AIDS, for starters. You do realize that that's what you just did, right?
<> | Sheilav wrote: |
I have been defending the right of the unborn child. Can you elaborate
on the human issue of abortion? Also include the rights of the mother
to undergo abortion as you and those who condone INTENTIONAL
ABORTION would say that it IS A RIGHT and maybe, just maybe
I will be convinced.
|
|
One of the key differences between us, SheilaV, is that I don't have a
burning need to convince you of what I believe. That being said,
abortion is a human issue because humans must grapple with all the
implications surrounding it. You've taken a potshot at me
and others like me who truly believe that people have the
autonomy and intelligence to make choices in life, while you give that
same idea (the responsibility and superior intellect of human beings)
lipservice. I think people should be reflective and caring.
I think people should be aware of what they are doing at all
times. I also think that a true parent understands that there are
far worse fates out there for some children than to never even start
life. I don't think God has anything to do with that
choice. People do. And if there is a God of some sort, for
the sake of discussion, it's pretty clear that He would be the one who gave human beings the power of choice.
| Sheilav wrote: |
And I hope Lazarus will choose to resurrect to life from the dead as
what is said in the Bible. Hope you are not offended. Good day! |
|
You know what "ironic" means, right? I'm not offended...just slightly surprised that you used my joke as your serious sign-off.
|
|
|
|
|
|