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Sheilav  +  174589 Mon, 26 Dec 05 02:52 PM

Good day again, Lazarus.

What I have written is not only for you to understand. There are many who read what we type in our postcripts. I truly believe we have the right to do what is right and what is not, that is why we are humans and that is why we have a choice and that should be an intelligent choice to make.

What is asked- is IS IT REALLY  RIGHT TO HAVE AN INTENTIONAL ABORTION?

You have attacked me in all angles but I don't care. Paragraph by paragraph you made your point. But I don't easily give up. Each of us has our own views on the topic and I just can't stop thinking about it. Its just that there's something dictating in my mind to defend the right of the child in the womb. What I care is that those who read our discussion will find meaning in them not merely attacking each others views. I hope you can present statistical evidence of the reasons of women undergoing abortion and their reasons for doing so, so that we can better understand them.

If we want to understand between right and not right. Let us find the meaning or essence of life to each of us. What is your view in life( and this time I'm not only talking to you Lazarus)?Here is my view of life- if anyone  wish to hear me. In all the planets in the galaxy, it is only Earth which has life. It is the only planet which is neither too hot nor too cold, there has been evidence of past existence of possible rivers or lakes in other planets but no life existed-- it is only Earth which has had life. The theory of life is that there must be somekind of force which mixed the very common elements of Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen and Nitrogen, a some kind of a soup in the oceans of the earth and with the help of lightning the first cell lived. It might have been a fungus and from that single cell--LIFE BEGAN. From that single cell, multiple organ organisms survived. If there was a hand  to stop that cell to grow, there wouldn't be me today nor any other human being. If the egg as I was in the womb of my mother was crushed would I be still here? No, I would not and I would never be. Just like all the barren planets of the galaxy.

To anybody out there, who upholds the right of an intentional abortion- do you respect LIFE? How do you respect the life of an unborn child?

 If you were given an egg placed in your hand and you don't know from which it came from--what would you do if it is an egg of a T-rex, maybe you'll destroy it right away. If it was the egg of a chicken maybe you'll put it in a ref for you know its usefulness. If you knew it came from a human being, wouldn't you take care of it because you know a baby will grow from it? Ababy which is just like you and me.

To Lazarus, please don't get too personal on your statements.  You have judged me of what I am . I just hope you start discussing on the topic and not just attacking on everything I write.

Joined on Thu, Oct 27 2005
New Member 20
Sheilav  +  174671 Mon, 26 Dec 05 06:49 PM

 May we also discuss the grey areas of what is right. Doing right from what I believe is doing something for the common good. If we put the statement of abortion there-- Is having an intentional abortion, right? It maybe doing good for the woman bearing the unborn child because doing it will not disrupt her career, or her school, or her family or her other activities. It may also be good because pregnancy was a result of rape. It may also be good for the parents  (of the woman) who will not have to bear the shame or responsibility of the coming child. But it is not good for the unborn child because it's life is being cut off.

I also believe that the Law on Legal Abortion was in place because those who made this law have regarded human life and respected the rights of the woman but they have not really respected the RIGHT TO LIFE. They have made a law because the fertilized egg is not considered human yet, until it bore its features. Where else does a human being comes, except from a fertilized egg?

I would like to make conclusions/suggestions on the following:

Those who are contemplating on having sex:  I hope you do it with the right person and at the right time. There are consequences of the act, so please choose the right person who can be a good father to a possible child. At the right time, is a time that is appropriate to understand and be responsible of the implications of the act be it-- STDs or pregnancy. And do it in moderation.

To those who are now having an unwanted child:

1- Delay your decision for an abortion.

2-Seek help from a counselor. In that way, you can best understand your present situation and I hope you will understand that abortion is not the only way out in a complex problem. There are other options. That bearing the child for 9 months is not too long to wait.

3-An ultrasound will help to see if really you have a baby inside you or a blighted ovum or an H-mole in which instances there are positive HCG results.

4-Pray if you have a God. Or search in your heart that what you are doing is really right.

And I would like to share with you what Kahlil Gibran said:

."..Speak to us of children:

And he said:

Your children are not your children.

They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.

They come through you but not from you,

And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,

For they have their own thoughts.

You may house your bodies but not their souls,

For their souls dwell in the house of to-morrow, which you cannot visit not even in your dreams.

You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.

For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.

Let your bending in the Archer's hand be for gladness;

For even as He loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable."

 Our children are a continuation of our ownselves. Please choose life.

Again (I'm not yelling,I'm only stressing my point), MAY GOD BLESS ALL THOSE WHO SEEK ABORTION.           

Lazarus  +  174703 Mon, 26 Dec 05 09:37 PM
 Sheilav wrote:
To Lazarus, please don't get too personal on your statements.  You have judged me of what I am . I just hope you start discussing on the topic and not just attacking on everything I write.


Refuting is not the same as attacking, Sheilav.  I realize that you are attempting to send your own strong religious message out to anyone reading this.  I think it is important to present strongly the other side of this issue.  Take your own advice when it comes to whether it makes sense to personalize.  Several of my responses have been replies to statements made by you that I find indecent. 
Your belief system requires others to follow.  Mine doesn't.  Consider that.

Please do, however, respond to the point I have made twice now about mothers given a medical certainty of their babies living short, painful lives.  How do you feel about this?


 Sheilav wrote:
...that is why we have a choice and that should be an intelligent choice to make.


We completely agree on this.

 Sheilav wrote:
What is asked- is IS IT REALLY  RIGHT TO HAVE AN INTENTIONAL ABORTION?

I know you aren't just addressing me, but here are my two thoughts on this.  First, please turn off your caps.  If you want to have a respectful conversation with others online, you can't shout.  Second, in answer to your question, yes, it is at times.  I can't speak for people in the world who sometimes make poor choices.  There are people in the world who make poor choices about many aspects of their lives.  However, I firmly believe that there are worse fates in the world than never even to begin life, and I think it is the responsibility of a true parent to make choices which revolve around that reality.  Taking that choice away from parents who genuinely care is a horrible prospect, in my mind.

Edit:  I'm editing this post because I am still waiting, Sheilav, for you to respond to any of my specific points.  If you want to have a conversation about the issue, you need to converse.  I understand your religion...you have been very clear on that.  Now please try to address the specific issues I have raised.
Also, consider your statement  "You have judged me of what I am . I just hope you start discussing on the topic and not just attacking on everything I write."  I'm trying to pursue the issue through discussion.  I'm not sure you're grasping that I simply disagree with you, and so far you have presented one and only one point of consideration, which is your religion.  It's certainly unfair to blanket your remarks with your religious views, and then claim that I'm being judgmental and not discussing.  That's a strange combination of perspectives.  I'm still waiting for a discussion.
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Sheilav  +  178329 Tue, 03 Jan 06 04:23 AM

It seems we are the only ones left in the battlefield.

Let me try to answer some of your responses to my statements:

About the rapist, it should be presumed that he is satisfied on the act that is why he is doing it. Although, you don't want to presume this emotion that could exist in that situation. That is why the act is punishable because it only serves one person- the rapist and destroys the dignity of the one being raped- usually the woman.

About the existence of God and religions- well, one cannot separate the mind from the human being. And the mind is usually composed of beliefs,experiences and other mental processes which aid him in his survival. One acts according to what one thinks. He is satisfied more if he does the right and doing the right is doing good  for everybody/everything otherwise it will be a selfish act.

About the eradication of the human species, well, I was overemphasizing my point because you have reasoned that many of you think in a way that intentional abortion is a right of any human. For example 2/3rds of the population in the world believe like you do and they all practice intentional abortion with no regard to life, do you think the human species will survive? There are now cases of human cloning because maybe man cannot wait  another billion year to produce a perfect person. It is thru natural selection that the genes of our parents combine to produce a stronger cell and later a better person.

About evolution and the Bible. I am a free thinker, although I believe in God. I do not take in context everything that is said in the Bible. The Bible and the religions of the world are a guide for us to find the truth. It is not the truth itself. So what do I do if faced with the dilemma, well I can't close my eyes to the presence of dinosaurs because maybe at the time of the dinosaurs, no human or humanoid has ever walked the earth to say of their existence. That is why it better to understand science in the light of religion rather than maintain them to be two separate entities. It better to harmonize things than to leave these in chaos. 

Sheilav  +  178332 Tue, 03 Jan 06 04:49 AM

About the reasons I have forwarded for those women who seek abortion. These are true. And I am challenging you to find your list of reasons why women seek abortion. Maybe you can give us a view in your own locality if possible.

I don't like the idea of comparing my views with you nor any other person. Each of us has our own intellect which grew through our own experiences and convictions. And I reiterate, one cannot separate the mind from the person. The mind which is constantly seeking for the right.

If  I am consumed by emotion to save a life by changing some of the minds reading my postcript, then I will be  happy that at least one life was saved through careful thinking. I would be paralleling my emotions  with Schindler in the movie. After saving a handful of lives, he was still unhappy and discontent, he could have saved more if he could have sold his ring or his car. I hope that in my postcripts, some will be enlightened and will do the right choice for the unborn, unwanted being in the womb of the mother.

If you please present, the worse fates of children born from parents. For example what happens to children placed in homes for adoption. Can you present statistical evidence in the fates of these children? Rather than assuming their fates. One cannot totally predict one's fate. Even my own, I cannot predict my future. So I hope you should not predict the future of the unborn children. If they die of natural causes without the hand of a parent to hasten their deaths, then it is understandable.

Sheilav  +  178338 Tue, 03 Jan 06 05:04 AM

In this section, we are not talking about a pregnancy with medical complications. We are talking of intentional abortion of a child which is presumed to be healthy in the womb of the mother. That is why we need to have an ultrasound to ascertain the viability of the fetus. If the child died in utero or during delivery, well has to accept this because even though with good monitoring. Death comes unexpectedly. But intentional death is never acceptable.

We are not taking the choice from parents who think that giving life to a child whom they think will just die. I am just giving reasons why we can preserve life rather than throw it in trash. I would like to reason to parents of unwanted children, that they can choose life rather than death. One life matters. Only one life was given to Buddha, to Jesus, to Mohammed, to Gandhi and to all other good persons who walked this earth. I think it is right to save just one life, even at the time of conception. Life begins at conception, and I hope the lawmakers will consider this.

And I hope everybody will respect life in conception.

nona the brit  +  178394 Tue, 03 Jan 06 08:14 AM
The world is heading towards a population crisis and many areas and individual people are suffering economically and socially through  too high a level of reproduction. I don't think you need worry about a comparitively few abortions damaging the development of the human race.
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Passionate_freak  +  178416 Tue, 03 Jan 06 10:04 AM

Hello everyone,

Well, few abortions won't damage the develpoment of human race, it's true. And population's getting to the crisis too, I agree with Nona but I completely disagree with human behavior which is lower than of even a wild animal. Animals have once/twice or few more sex in year but we human, so called perfect cretures !!! It's a shame.

There's another way of it use the contraceptives, or make it to the celebacy if you are strong enough in will power. If not then ... It's suerly a crime to kill someone who hasn't even seen the world, it's totally insane. 

Though abortion is legal in  most of the part, I'm totally against it but should be allowed in rare cases like rapes etc, and I strongly raise my voice the death sentence for the rapists, only if laboraty tastes proves it.

Regards 

Joined on Mon, Oct 24 2005
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Make a friendship Let the love survive It will surely dry Tears from your eyes, saw rose
Anonymous, 3 yr 322 days ago
You are against killing fetus, very nice. But you want to kill human becos he is rapist. Think.. If you use contraceptives, right there you are depriving a baby from taking birth, thats not good either.Millions of sperm and Eggs are getting killed due to contraception, they have a life too. Think again pl.  I have something to say about fetus and abortion. Am a science man. For me there is no God. Wait, dont skip reading. Its all relative in this world. What we are comfortable doing at this point in time is what decides the norm in the society. Be wise, earth can only support limited population. Not just only that, parents who didnt want a baby have the right to abort, girls should have right to get rid of unwanted pregnancies. For me if you are not ready to carry for 9months and support a baby in every way, dont give birth to one. Noone wants your baby either. Respecting life is not retaining every conception. Retaining conception everytime is draining planet resources. Be practical and Live and let live. Unfortunately humans breed in all seasons unlike animals. Animals either eat or loose their babies thus there is a control on their population. Humans are different and wise, so be wise. In primitive life humans also were like animals. They used to do sex only with a motive to reproduce. Once they learnt to live in society and family life..then slowly they learnt to see woman as a piece of entertainment. Men began to see sex as a fun thing in addition to reproduction. In to modern times the media is constantly training young brains to view women as sex objects. So is the drive in men to go after women. If men didnt have the drive and they all remained monogamous kind of then abortion is never an issue. I am running out of time for today. .see ya later.
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