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Matthew Huntbach    642279 Wed, 06 Jul 05 11:52 AM

"But was coffee served in a variety of styles as ... "froffy coffee" what you got when you asked for "coffee"?"

"I had a Saturday job working at Joe Lyons in the late 60s in the days of mass catering. They ... really good cup of coffee?" The answer was given as "Don't let the milk boil." The questionee just looked bewildered."

Was "milk and a dash" specifically on the menu as that, alongside standard "coffee" or was it what you got when you asked for "coffee"? My earliest memories of British coffee, and this would be in the late 60s, was that it was assumed to be a drink made with hot milk (and Camp Coffee essence ...). This is what is now known as "cafe latte" (I mean coffee made with hot milk - not with "coffee essence") in the coffee bars - it reappeared under this name a few years ago.
"I've never even seen a Starbucks (I must get out more) but I suspect I wouldn't have a clue what to ask for if I just wanted a cup of coffee."

Starbucks are unavoidable in central London - it sometimes feels as if they have a policy that there must be one in view wherever you are. In the suburbs, however, they only seem to open in the more upmarket places - in south-east London where I live they have branches in Blackheath and Bromley, but I can't think of one anywhere else.

They serve coffee in three sizes, whose names I forget, but the smallest size is still too big. "Cafe Americano" is the name they give to what we would probably now regard as standard coffee i.e. weakish and served black but you can add a dash of milk to it.
Matthew Huntbach
Phil C.    642290 Wed, 06 Jul 05 02:19 PM

"I had a Saturday job working at Joe Lyons in ... of each day. I was never tempted to drink it."

"Was "milk and a dash" specifically on the menu as that, alongside standard "coffee" or was it what you got when you asked for "coffee"?"

It was a menu choice in its own right - often called "milky dash" by the customers. But I've never heard of it since - perhaps it was specific to Joe Lyons.
"My earliest memories of British coffee, and this would be in the late 60s, was that it was assumed to ... milk - not with "coffee essence") in the coffee bars - it reappeared under this name a few years ago."

My ex-parents-in-law were using ground coffee in a percolator then. But they made it weak and then mixed it with hot milk. I was brought up on Camp followed by powder followed by granules. I haven't had instant coffee in years and FAIK it may be much improved now. Or not.
Phil C.
Robin Bignall    642296 Wed, 06 Jul 05 04:43 PM

On 6 Jul 2005 01:13:48 -0700, "Matthew Huntbach"
"Nope: "froffy coffee" was common in the 1950s' "milk bars". ... roars whilst heating and frothing the milk with superheated steam."

"Yes, I'm aware of that, though as a folk memory rather than as an actual recollection, since it's before my ... variety of styles as in current coffee bars, or was "froffy coffee" what you got when you asked for "coffee"?"

I remember the mid-1950s coffee bar craze quite well. The one that I used to drop into, opposite the Tech where I was taking A-Levels, was absolutely jam-packed of an evening, and you really had only two choices - espresso or espresso with froth. If you just asked for 'coffee' you'd get the latter, and drank the coffee through the froth. It was not a true cappuccino.
A decade or so earlier, on the very rare occasions that my mother met her older sister in the city to catch up with family gossip (naturally, we didn't have a phone in those days), we'd go to a teashop, which might have been a Lyons or a cafe in Jessops, a department store. There they served either instant coffee made with milk, or maybe it was a small amount of extremely strong ground, filtered coffee diluted with a large amount of milk. But the milk was simmering, and it immediately formed a skin on the surface of the coffee which put me off coffee made with milk for life! I don't remember seeing Gaggia machines until the coffee bar craze.

In those days, coffee was a 'special occasion' drink. My parents had been given an EPNS percolator for a wedding present, and it just sat on the sideboard getting polished regularly. I think my mother bought a bottle of Camp coffee once, my father spat out his first mouthful, and the bottle was retired to the back of a kitchen shelf. I grew up associating Camp, as an alternative to Nescafe, with those snack trailers that sprang up alongside main roads, or transport cafes, where motor coaches would sometimes stop.

Robin
Nick Wagg  , 4 yr 140 days ago

...I grew up
"associating Camp, as an alternative to Nescafe, with those snack trailers that sprang up alongside main roads, or transport cafes, where motor coaches would sometimes stop."

Country bus, country bus, rollicking, frolicking, rumbustious...
Molly Mockford    642331 Wed, 06 Jul 05 06:58 PM

At 14:19:08 on Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Phil C. (Email Removed) wrote in (Email Removed):
"My ex-parents-in-law were using ground coffee in a percolator then. But they made it weak and then mixed it with ... followed by granules. I haven't had instant coffee in years and FAIK it may be much improved now. Or not."

My parents also used a percolator as far back as I can recall (1950s), and also used hot milk - my mother *liked* the skin that formed. I used to get sent down to the grocer to ask for "half a pound of 3/3d coffee" which they would grind there and then - and it smelt totally delicious. I never got around to drinking the stuff, though, because I don't like milk - especially hot milk.
I always have a bottle of Camp in the house, though - very good for flavouring things. It never occurred to me to turn it into a drink for anyone.

Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)
Arthur    642342 Wed, 06 Jul 05 10:45 PM

"Sorry to bother you again. In The Netherlands we have Coffee and Coffee 'wrong' The later is Coffee with much to much hot milk poured in it. Is there an English name for such a coffee? No, not Capuccino! TIA Frans"

Hi all,
Don't forget in the meantime that DTP, the original poster of the question about coffee, is by now getting completely mad at you.. He'll probably never drink coffee again.. (LOL)

Arthur
Molly Mockford    642358 Wed, 06 Jul 05 11:31 PM

At 23:45:16 on Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Arthur (Email Removed) wrote in :
"Don't forget in the meantime that DTP, the original poster of the question about coffee, is by now getting completely mad at you.. He'll probably never drink coffee again.. (LOL)"

He can't say he wasn't warned...

Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)
Mike Stevens    642459 Thu, 07 Jul 05 04:03 PM

"Coffee bars serving coffee in a variety of styles seemed to appear overnight some time in the 1990s."

Re-appear! There were plenty of them around (in London) in the late 1950s & 1960s.

Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus II
Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
No man is an island. So is Man.
Mike Stevens    642473 Thu, 07 Jul 05 04:18 PM

"My ex-parents-in-law were using ground coffee in a percolator then. But they made it weak and then mixed it with ... followed by granules. I haven't had instant coffee in years and FAIK it may be much improved now. Or not."

When I was a child (1940s & 50s) my parents (middle class Londoners who'd moved out to the country) also made coffee with ground coffee in a percolator.
When I came up to London in 1961 the age of thbe Milk Bar had gioven way to the Coffee Bar, where one could order "espresso", "black coffee" (diluted espresso), "white coffee" (black coffee + cold milk) or "cappucino" (as we know it today without the chocolate topping, so perhaps a bit more like what is now (mis-)called "latte").

Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus II
Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
No man is an island. So is Man.
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