Adult native English speakers do not commit errors in usage.

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milky  #396962  Thu, 26 Jul 07 02:28 PM

 Nona The Brit wrote:
It's also the case that we speak differently to the way that we write. I know I make 'errors' in my speech, or at least use the local non-standard bits of English, but in serious writing I use standard English and of course have the opportunity to check for mistakes. You can't 'proof-listen' or correct your speech until too late. Sometimes I think 'Ugh! Did I really just say that?'

So are you saying that the errors you make in writing, pre-correction, are based on your spoken language?

  
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nona the brit  #397054  Thu, 26 Jul 07 06:14 PM
No, not really. It's more changing your mind half way through a sentence so having to go back and change verb tenses - or typos of course - that sort of thing. Not just repeating speech patterns.
  
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Kooyeen  #397162  Fri, 27 Jul 07 12:09 AM
Hi,
this topic doesn't make much sense... I mean, everybody makes mistakes, nothing and nobody is perfect. God is supposed to be perfect, yet He's the one who's made the most mistakes. Smile [:)]

And by the way, I saw that word again in this thread. Educated. Why do you guys like that word so much? LOL, I don't like it. If you are educated, it doesn't mean your English is better. If you are uneducated, it doesn't mean your English is worse. If you speak informal English, it doesn't mean your English is worse, and it doesn't mean you are uneducated either. If you speak formal English, it doesn't mean your English is better, and it doesn't mean you are educated either.
I associate the word educated with the words "school, college, books", rather than with "language". I don't think most people speak the way they were taught...

Oooops, I just realized this is one of Milky's threads... we already talked about "educatedness", remember? Ok, sorry, I'll keep quiet.¹ Smile [:)]



¹Note: promises may change and be broken without notice.
  
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milky  #397167  Fri, 27 Jul 07 12:37 AM

<Hi,
this topic doesn't make much sense... I mean, everybody makes mistakes, nothing and nobody is perfect. God is supposed to be perfect, yet He's the one who's made the most mistakes. Smile <img src=" src="/emoticons/emotion-1.gif">>

The idea that native speakers do not commit errors does not make sense to me, but folks will say they don't.

  
milky  #397168  Fri, 27 Jul 07 12:42 AM

<God is supposed to be perfect, yet He's the one who's made the most mistakes.>

Oh, I dunno, just look a GW. Devil [6]

  
Kimm  #397274  Fri, 27 Jul 07 12:23 PM
 Milky wrote:
I keep hearing "adult native English speakers do not commit errors in usage".

Do you agree with that "quote"?



It isn't entirely clear what an "error in usage" is.

If someone is competent in their own idiolect (does that follow by definition?), they could still make errors, or mistakes, in performance.

/km
  
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Feathers  #397356  Fri, 27 Jul 07 04:35 PM
 Milky wrote:

<God is supposed to be perfect, yet He's the one who's made the most mistakes.>

Oh, I dunno, just look a GW. Devil [6]




No offence, only to those interested in Bushisms, here's Molly Ivins' lecture on his creative uses of the English language.

_________________________________________________________________________________

MOLLY IVINS:

Howdy, y'all, and welcome back to our periodic seminar on how to understand the only president we've got. I'm here once more to clarify the situation, but not speaking Hispanically.

Well, it's been a tough ride for the prez so far. Since the minute he got elected, the storm clouds on the horizon were getting nearly directly overhead. He's only been able to knock off work 40 percent of the time in office, including the highly original vacation idea of spending August in Texas. But we're mighty pleased to have him home because home is important and it is important to have a home.

Bush is against the estate tax because people who build up assets should be able to transfer them, regardless of a person's race. His pan plays down an unprecedented amount of the national debt, and he is making the right decisions to bring this solution to an end.

He's also made a full affront on the energy crisis because it is really the result of not enough power-generating plants and then not enough power to power the power of a generating plants. This will be taken care of by the explorationists. And he believes our nation must come together in order to unite.

Foreign policy, however, has been a bit of a problem. In the Middle East, we have got to get the framework--the groundwork, not framework--the groundwork to discuss a framework for peace to lay the--never mind. But we must tell the different parties involved that peace will never happen. Remember that Bush is not in favor of a treaty that he thinks makes sense for the country.

Education continues to be a major theme in Bush's presidency because we need to remediate in this area. It is time to set aside the old partisan bickerings and finger-pointing and name-calling that comes from freeing parents to make different choices for their children. Of all states that understand local control of the schools, Iowa is such as a state. So when your teachers say read, you listen to her. You teach a child to read and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test.

George W.'s learned a lot since he went to Washington. He is mindful not only of preserving executive powers for himself, but for his predecessors as well. He knows there's a lot of ambition in Washington, but he hopes the ambitious will realize they are more likely to succeed with success, as opposed to failure.

In closing, the president knows what he believes. And he will continue to articulate what he believes and what he believes he believes what he believes is right. And so, we must all agree with him that hope is in the far distant future, if at all.

_________________________________________________________________________________

(An excerpt from National Public Radio,  11 Sep. 2001)
  
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Grammar Geek  #397364  Fri, 27 Jul 07 04:55 PM

 Kooyeen wrote:

If you are educated, it doesn't mean your English is better.

I don't really agree with you there, if "better" means "using Standard English forms a greater percentage of the time."

A lot fewer people with higher education will say "Me and Jimmy was ..." or "Yeah, I seen it" then people with less education.

 Kooyeen wrote:

If you speak informal English, it doesn't mean your English is worse, and it doesn't mean you are uneducated either. If you speak formal English, it doesn't mean your English is better, and it doesn't mean you are educated either.

Completely  agree with you there.

 Milky wrote:

...but folks will say they don't.

Milky, who are these "folks" who make this claim? Certainly no "educated, native speakers" here!

  
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Barbara, who answers in American English.
Feathers  #397380  Fri, 27 Jul 07 05:44 PM
Sad to say, but I've got a feeling that you (or we all) tend to judge a person's intellectual level by his/her accent.
  
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