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Rotter  #226609  Thu, 18 May 06 07:42 PM


My friend's grand father is not alive.
He told me the following:
If he lived today, he would be 135 years old.

I think it should be 'If he had lived today, he would have been 135 years old'.

Am I correct? Your comments are welcome.


  
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Marius Hancu  #226617  Thu, 18 May 06 07:52 PM
you might want to check this thread out and the quotations from Jespersen:

http://www.englishforums.com/English/IfIWereVsIfIHadBeen/cmrpl/Post.htm
  
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Rotter  #226625  Thu, 18 May 06 08:05 PM
I found the following in the link you have mentioned.

"If I had had the money [Jespersen: at the present moment], I should
have paid you."


By the same token, it would be fine to say:

If he had lived today, he would have been 135 years old.

Please tel me if I am wrong.

  
Grammar Geek  #226628  Thu, 18 May 06 08:13 PM

If he were alive today, he would be 135 years old.

If he were still living today, he would be 135 years old.

  
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Marius Hancu  #226630  Thu, 18 May 06 08:16 PM
The point in Jespersen is the degree the doubt required.  I don't think you need the degree of doubt which you're using in your version, by using the past perfect tense for present time.

Your friend's version
If he lived today, he would be 135 years old.
is fine IMO and the most common.

Make a search at Yahoo for
"if he lived today"
and another for
"if he had lived today"
(quotation marks are important)

and you will find 10 times more results for "if he lived today"

Read again Jespersen:-)

Then you'll realize the past tense is mainly used for past time, or whenever you really need to reinforce the doubt.

And btw, Grammar Geek is right about changing to "were alive." More natural.
  
davkett  #226652  Thu, 18 May 06 09:26 PM

 Marius Hancu wrote:

And btw, Grammar Geek is right about changing to "were alive." More natural.

Not only are GG's more natural, I think the others don't really work. 

They might be fine for comments like, 'if he lived today, he'd be the first one to criticize the President,' or 'if he had lived today, he would have cut down those trees.'

I can't explain the grammatical basis, though I'd hope someone else could.

  
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Rotter  #226831  Fri, 19 May 06 11:22 AM

After reading all the comments, I conclude all of the following are grammatically correct in the given context.

It may be the case that some of the sentences are more common. You are welcome to comment again if necessary.


10. If he were alive today, he would be 135 years old.

11. If he were still living today, he would be 135 years old.


12. If he lived today, he would be 135 years old.


13. If he had lived today, he would have been 135 years old.



  
davkett  #226870  Fri, 19 May 06 01:59 PM

 Rotter wrote:

After reading all the comments, I conclude all of the following are grammatically correct in the given context.

In the given context ,I think you should want something more than grammatical correctness.  I would use nos. 10 and 11, but not 12 and 13.  You'll have a difficult time finding any Google support for 12 and 13.

  
Marius Hancu  #226874  Fri, 19 May 06 02:09 PM
 Davkett wrote:
<>In the given context ,I think you should want something more than grammatical correctness.  I would use nos. 10 and 11, but not 12 and 13.  You'll have a difficult time finding any Google support for 12 and 13.
1,050 hits at Yahoo for "if he lived today" (quotation marks are important at Yahoo), such as:
------
Scenes of the Sangamon River and surroundings in Piatt County,
Illinois, such as Lincoln might have seen if he lived today.

http://www.lulu.com/content/194551
------
Not the most frequent usage, but ...
  
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