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Javi
671571
Sat, 27 Sep 03 10:03 AM
"It's short for "Ojalá que...", which comes from the Arabic "may Allah grant"." "Why did that never dawn on me? Actually, looking at the DRAE, you're off a little. They say it's "law Sa llah", "if God wills" ("si Dios quiere"). Are there other Muslim religious references in everyday Spanish?" I can now think of: olé, mezquita, faquir, macabro, ataúd, meca, ramadán. Anyway, I'm not sure about how to understand "Muslim religious references" nor "everyday Spanish", so maybe these words are not what you are looking for. Saludos cordiales Javi Conjunction of an irregular verb: I am firm. You are obstinate. He is a pig-headed fool.
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Ross Howard
671574
Sat, 27 Sep 03 10:07 AM
"Why did that never dawn on me? Actually, looking at ... quiere"). Are there other Muslim religious references in everyday Spanish?" "I can now think of: olé, mezquita, faquir, macabro, ataúd, meca, ramadán. Anyway, I'm not sure about how to understand "Muslim religious references" nor "everyday Spanish", so maybe these words are not what you are looking for." Could the exclamation of surprise *¡hala!* be a corruption of *Alá*? (Sorry, no etymological Spanish dic handy.) ** Ross Howard
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Javi
671595
Sat, 27 Sep 03 11:18 AM
"I can now think of: olé, mezquita, faquir, macabro, ataúd, ... maybe these words are not what you are looking for." "Could the exclamation of surprise *¡hala!* be a corruption of *Alá*? (Sorry, no etymological Spanish dic handy.)" Neither do I, but it could be as you say; anyway, there are other plausible hypotheses: The DRAE says that it comes from Arabic "hala", used to stir horses up; I know too little Arabic as to consider it. Other possibility is that "hala" is the imperative form of "halar", southern pronunciation of "jalar" (to pull), used by fishermen (pulling the net); the DRAE says Spanish "jalar" comes from French "haler", and this seems to come from Germanic. The problem with your hypothesis is that leaves unexplained the initial "h", generally mute nowadays, but pronnounced (as in English) until not too long ago. Saludos cordiales Javi Conjunction of an irregular verb: I am firm. You are obstinate. He is a pig-headed fool.
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Ross Howard
671623
Sat, 27 Sep 03 01:05 PM
"Neither do I, but it could be as you say; anyway, there are other plausible hypotheses: The DRAE says that ... is that leaves unexplained the initial "h", generally mute nowadays, but pronnounced (as in English) until not too long ago." That's true. But "Pull the net!" as the equivalent of "Bloody 'ell!" sounds even less convincing, doesn't it? And what is *¡Hala, Madrid!* rough cultural, equivalent: "Go, Steelers! (AmE) or "Come on you Reds!" (BrE) all about? (Minor Anniversaries Corner: Alfredo di Stefano joined Real Madrid 50 years ago last week.) ** Ross Howard
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Evan Kirshenbaum
671677
Sat, 27 Sep 03 04:02 PM
"Why did that never dawn on me? Actually, looking at ... quiere"). Are there other Muslim religious references in everyday Spanish?" "I can now think of: olé, mezquita, faquir, macabro, ataúd, meca, ramadán. Anyway, I'm not sure about how to understand "Muslim religious references" nor "everyday Spanish", so maybe these words are not what you are looking for." I was thinking more of words that aren't considered to refer to anything religious but that started out that way references to Allah, or the Qur`an, or Muslim holidays or prayers that remain in words used in casual conversation on other topics. The way English "good-bye" came from "God be with ye". So words like "mezquita", "faquir", and "ramadán" still seem to mean their Muslim referents. As does "ataúd", but I'm not sure that even really qualifies as a religious reference. "Meca", like English "mecca", is a good example. I'm not sure why "macabro" (from French "danse macabré") is on the list. "Olé" would be a good example, but the DRAE just says "voz expr." so they don't seem to think that it came from anything having to do with Allah. Evan Kirshenbaum + HP Laboratories >"The Dynamics of Interbeing and 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 >Monological Imperatives in 'DickPalo Alto, CA 94304 >and Jane' : A Study in Psychic http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
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Javi
671786
Sat, 27 Sep 03 07:06 PM
"I can now think of: olé, mezquita, faquir, macabro, ataúd, ... maybe these words are not what you are looking for." "I was thinking more of words that aren't considered to refer to anything religious but that started out that way references ... like English "mecca", is a good example. I'm not sure why "macabro" (from French "danse macabré") is on the list." "Del ár. maqabir, tumbas, cementerio." "Del ár. macbora .." In the 2001 ed. the RAE seems to adhere to the Fench hypothesis, which says that it comes from the biblical Macchabei brothers, through "dance macab(r)é". ""Olé" would be a good example, but the DRAE just says "voz expr." so they don't seem to think that it came from anything having to do with Allah." Same explanation: "Del ár. wa-llah, ¡por Dios!, que se emplea en sentido admirativo; o podría ser creación expresiva." So it seems that they have now decided that the latter is the most probable origin. "Olé" seems old: it appears in 16th century's books. Saludos cordiales Javi Conjunction of an irregular verb: I am firm. You are obstinate. He is a pig-headed fool.
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DE781
,
6 yr 61 days ago
"}> Dena Jo: }>> I think I might have punctuated ... at the end as a subtle hint to recent posters." "I may drift off at times, but that was not the case there. OK, my punctuation was faulty. I hate ... with there being no set rules, and such, in English. Now, in Latvian or German that's a different story!" Not being any set rules? You mean Latvian and German have even STRICTER rules of punctuation?
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DE781
671847
Sat, 27 Sep 03 10:10 PM
"I think I might have punctuated that like so: "Well ... wrong and had to go back and read it again." "I can see that without context (which was snipped), and reading one word at a time, not seeing the whole sentence, that could happen. I, much inclined as I am to using "well" as Reagan did," I'm too young to remember Reagan for anything other than being a senile old nut. But, I'm guessing, he used to use "well" in the same way that we Gen Y'ers like to use it? did not see a problem in such a
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DE781
,
6 yr 61 days ago
"Skitt: This was three years ago. I stopped studying it ... We'll see what happens. But I THINK it's pretty crappy." "No, it is not crappy at all. I had expected it much worse after reading your doubts about posting to AUS. I could understand all your message in AUS." Wow! Thanks, Javi! Good to know. But, you still knew I was a foreigner, right? Here, you don't seem like a foreigner, your command of English is so good. I hope to be able to speak Spanish so well one day, and without so much effort. You "express yourself quite well in Spanish. You seem to have forgotten some things, specially verbal conjugation, but your vocabulary is good and your sintax is very good, you use subordinate clauses almost perfectly," Thanks. LOL, but I don't know what "subordinate clauses" are, in English OR Spanish. though "you have to learn the usage of the subjunctive and of "ser/estar"." I know them. I just forget a lot. Do you think the AUS will help? Probably "the fact that you have studied Italian is helping you, as both languages are similar, and their sintaxes are almost indentical." Yes, the syntaxes are basically the same in the two. Unfortunately, a lot of the vocabulary is VERY similar, but different enough that it wouldn't be understood if I use one language for the other. This is what's hard about knowing (and retaining) the two languages. "Well, I only stopped with the Italian a little over ... group be a good way to be totally immersed though?" "It is not exactly the same, but I believe that it is a good way. Don't forget that Spanish is ... as it is pronounced, so you have a lot less work to do than if you were learning other languages." Yeah! It's easier than Japanese, for one.
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