DE781    671171 Sat, 27 Sep 03 01:42 AM I recently made my first posting at the AUS. My Spanish is God-awful. Has anyone ever come to the AUE with just the most basic of English knowledge, and eventually gone on to become fairly fluent thanks to the AUE's help? Is it unrealistic of me to think the AUS will help my Spanish, after only five years of studying it, in a public high school? What about the AUI helping my Italian, after only studying it for two semesters in college? In order to become bilingual or trilingual, fluently, is it necessary to take more professional training than this? Or is practical, real, person-to-person conversation and use of the language the best way to improve after learning the basics? If this is the case, are the AU groups the best places to start? How are foreigners treated here? And what have they been able to learn? Comments from anyone, foreign or native-English-speaking, are more than welcome. DE781 Countries, United Kingdom, Great Britain, Friendships, Speaking, Chat, Languages, Conversational, Training

	Skitt    671186 Sat, 27 Sep 03 02:12 AM "I recently made my first posting at the AUS. My Spanish is God-awful. Has anyone ever come to the AUE with just the most basic of English knowledge, and eventually gone on to become fairly fluent thanks to the AUE's help?" Not to my knowledge. "Is it unrealistic of me to think the AUS will help my Spanish, after only five years of studying it, in a public high school?" You've studied it for five years, and your Spanish is still God-awful, as you say? "What about the AUI helping my Italian, after only studying it for two semesters in college?" Don't put too much stock in that, espcially in view of your Spanish "success". "In order to become bilingual or trilingual, fluently, is it necessary to take more professional training than this? Or is ... to improve after learning the basics? If this is the case, are the AU groups the best places to start?" To become fluent in a language the best way is to become totally immersed in it. That is what I got for my German and English, in that order. My German fluency is gone, however, as I have not spoken the language in many decades. Now it is my native tongue that is suffering. "How are foreigners treated here?" Well, if they are courteous. "And what have they been able to learn?" Who's to say? "Comments from anyone, foreign or native-English-speaking, are more than welcome." I'm not a native-English speaker, but I'm the closest thing to it that you can get. I learned English at around the age of 16 some before, some after. I can do Standard Formal English better than many native speakers, but that's not unusual for one who has studied the language and not just grown up with it. On the other hand, I do "colloquial" too. ;-) Skitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/ Skitt Countries, United Kingdom, Great Britain, Friendships, United States, Speaking, Chat, Languages, Training

	Dena Jo     671197 Sat, 27 Sep 03 02:31 AM "Well, if they are courteous." I think I might have punctuated that like so: "Well if they are courteous." I initially read the "well" as a throwaway "well," and it wasn't until I got to end of the sentence that I realize I'd read it completely wrong and had to go back and read it again. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else had the same problem with it. It could be that I've simply grown so accustomed to reading verbatim deposition transcripts, where every other sentence begins with a throwaway (well, now, etc.) that it's difficult for me to read it any other way. Dena Jo (Email: Replace TPUBGTH with denajo2) Dena Jo Sentences

	John DeFiore    671204 Sat, 27 Sep 03 02:36 AM "I recently made my first posting at the AUS. My Spanish is God-awful.Has anyone ever come to the AUE with ... treated here? And what have they been able to learn? Comments from anyone, foreign or native-English-speaking, are more than welcome." I also post at AUS from time to time. My Spanish is OK, and I find AUS most helpful in answering questions when there is some doubt about grammar or a slang usage. To work toward fluency, I'd recommend listening to Spanish language radio and news and reading Spanish language newspapers and magazines. Radio Unica is a talk radio network in Spanish, you can listen online at www.radiounica.com. Here in the San Francisco bay area there are several free weekly newspapers in Spanish, there may be some in your area too, assuming you don't live here. I subscribe to a Spanish language magazine called QUO, which is an interesting read, see http://www.quo.wanadoo.es/. Que tenga buena suerte, John John DeFiore Countries, United Kingdom, Great Britain, Friendships, United States, Usages, Speaking, Chat, Online, Languages

	DE781    671211 Sat, 27 Sep 03 02:47 AM Skitt: "You've studied it for five years, and your Spanish is still God-awful, as you say?" This was three years ago. I stopped studying it three years ago. I'm sure I was better then than I am now. I've probably lost a bit, since I haven't really used it since. I don't know if it's really God-awful. I guess I'll find out soon enough if anyone's able to understand it. I know I don't have all the tenses right. I have a so-so vocabulary. We'll see what happens. But I THINK it's pretty crappy. "Don't put too much stock in that, espcially in view of your Spanish "success"." Well, I only stopped with the Italian a little over a year ago. So, even though I took it for a shorter amount of time, shouldn't I probably remember more of whatever I learned now? "To become fluent in a language the best way is to become totally immersed in it." Wouldn't an AU group be a good way to be totally immersed though? Short of a trip to Mexico, it's probably the best way, no? It's all I can think of. Unless I decide to spend my entire Thanksgiving and Christmas breaks hanging out in Paterson or something. "That is what I got for my German and English, in that order. My German fluency is gone, however, as I have not spoken the language in many decades. Now it is my native tongue that is suffering." Skitt, I had NO IDEA that English wasn't your first language. Your English is flawless! What was your native language? I'm guessing you live in an English-speaking country now? How did you do the immersion for English & German? "I can do Standard Formal English better than many native speakers, but that's not unusual for one who has studied the language and not just grown up with it. On the other hand, I do "colloquial" too. ;-)" You mean you can "do" the forms in typing? Or in speaking? What would you consider "standard formal English"? By "colloquial", do you mean the different regional dialects and accents? DE781 Accents, Dialects, Tenses, Vocabulary, Countries, United Kingdom, Great Britain, Friendships, Speaking, Chat, Christmas, Holidays, Languages, Thanksgiving

	DE781    671222 Sat, 27 Sep 03 02:53 AM Dena Jo: "I think I might have punctuated that like so: "Well if they are courteous." I initially read the "well" as a throwaway "well,"" Good call. I figured Skitt had made some sort of typo. It wasn't until reading your post, Dena, that I realized what he'd meant. And, no, it wasn't your "Well if..." that helped. It was your discussing the actual punctuation that tipped me off that I had probably misread it. And, then, I went directly back to Skitt's post and reread that sentence, and finally got it. Sure enough, I read both Skitt AND your version of the "well" as throwaways. I'd do it: "Well. If they are courteous", or probably even "They're treated well. If...", just to make it perfectly clear. Even as two separate sentences, the "well" could be misread as throwaway, probably. DE781 Sentences, Writing, Punctuation

	DE781    671225 Sat, 27 Sep 03 02:56 AM "Que tenga buena suerte," Here's what I mean by "God-awful". I can't even understand this. Except for the "buena suerte" ("good luck") part. The "Que tenga"...?? No clue. Thanks for the info though. The radio sounds like a good idea! Would the AUS peeps get *** at me for just chit-chatting and having them correct errors and make suggestions? I'm guessing that's not really what the AU groups are for. DE781 Mistakes, Friendships, Speaking, Chat

	DE781    671228 Sat, 27 Sep 03 03:00 AM YAY! I got a reply in the AUS, and the person seemed to have no major problem understanding me. Of course, his post is full of jargon, similar to the typical AUE post. It's the technical words that are confusing me moreso than the actual Spanish! LOL! DE781 Languages

	Rich Ragan    671232 Sat, 27 Sep 03 03:04 AM "Que tenga buena suerte," "Here's what I mean by "God-awful". I can't even understand this.Except for the "buena suerte" ("good luck") part. The "Que ... for just chit-chatting and having them correcterrors and make suggestions? I'm guessing that's not really what the AUgroups are for." Take it literally and then guess (though this does not work for all idiomatic phrases) Que=That tenga=you have buena suerte=good luck Giving you "That you have good luck" and now rephrase as it might be said in colloquial English. "Here's wishing you good luck". At least that's what my 5 years of Spanish tells me. Rich Rich Ragan Countries, United Kingdom, Great Britain, Friendships, Speaking, Chat, Languages