Despite the exhortation to get back to the original question, I feel I must comment further on the subject of whether animals are more intelligent than humans. I said in my first post in this thread that when it comes to measuring intelligence you have to decide what it is that you are going to measure and if you do that your definition of intelligence becomes circular: it is what you have decided to measure. Despite that, I think we can sensibly talk about what the word "intelligence" means. Here is one dictionary definition: capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.

If we take the young lady who succeeded in getting pregnant three times and compare her to the most intelligent chimpanzee we can ask:

Does her capacity for learning exceed that of the chimpanzee?

Does her capacity for reasoning exceed that of the chimpanzee?

Does her capacity for understanding exceed that of the chimpanzee?

And so on, I think we have to answer: "Yes."

Now a definition of "common sense": sound practical judgment that is independent of specialized knowledge, training, or the like.

If we ask whether the young lady has common sense, we may be forgiven for saying that she does not.

If we are using intelligence in the sense defined above I think it is perfectly legitimate to compare the intelligence of one species with another if every species displays the intelligence it has. We can say that chimpanzees are more intelligent than lemurs and that lemurs are more intelligent than geckos. Saying that one species is more intelligent than another says nothing other than that one species is more intelligent than another. It says nothing about whether any species is more deserving of respect any more than saying that one species can move quicker than another.

But let's get back to humans. I do not believe that possessing high intelligence makes a human more worthy of respect than another. Accordingly, when I read statements such as:

“I reckon that there are chimpanzees with more potential than some burkes I have had to work with over the years”

“Don't tell me that woman is more intelligent than any of the very intelligent dogs I've owned. She is not.”

I take them to be an affront to the dignity and humanity of the people to whom they refer. Being of a generous disposition, I will allow that people who make such statements may not have taken the opportunity to think through exactly what it is that they have said.

Forbes wrote:

But let's get back to humans. I do not believe that possessing high intelligence makes a human more worthy of respect than another. Accordingly, when I read statements such as: “I reckon that there are chimpanzees with more potential than some burkes I have had to work with over the years” I take them to be an affront to the dignity and humanity of the people to whom they refer. Being of a generous disposition, I will allow that people who make such statements may not have taken the opportunity to think through exactly what it is that they have said.

Thanks for possessing the humanity to sign your barb.

One of the burkes I worked with was a creature called <name deleted>, my arrest of this creature is a matter of public record in <name deleted> and so is free to be published anywhere.

<name deleted> is a serial rapist and worse and will probably never be released from gaol as it will undoubtadly reoffend either the law or some other predator and that will be that. 

Are you affronted for the dignity of <name deleted> or it's many victims?

Do you consider that creatures like <name deleted> are fully human or are they an abberation.  I processed a bloke who microwaved his mother's cat.  I processed poor <name deleted> who was charged with beasteality (of a pet sheep) and when asked for a reason said, "Mum give me a knock back but <name deleted> (the sheep was grazing in the back yard at the time) didn't mind."  The thought processes of some of these people is so foreign to mine that I have to consign them to a different type of intelligence and I do not believe that any of those individuals lived up to the potential due to any human.

And, Forbes, yes, I have thought through what I have said and I am quite comfortable with my non cloistered attitudes to life and all of the complex glory that it offers.

Stannum

[Edited for personal details]

My God, you edited the name of a pet sheep???

Forbes wrote:

I take them to be an affront to the dignity and humanity of the people to whom they refer. Being of a generous disposition, I will allow that people who make such statements may not have taken the opportunity to think through exactly what it is that they have said.

<John Locke quote from head of forum edited out>

G'day Forbes,

Did you actually read the quote by John Locke before you came on all affronted at me and my opinion??

You believe that you hold the certain and absolute truth in this matter and your truth flies in the face of my perception but I am not affronted by your opinion.

You criticised my habit of picking apart your metaphor rather than your overall argument but you just went through Alexa's argument like a dose of salts.  I smell more than a hypothetical conflict.

You quote Locke about the need to be inclusive of diverse opinions but are affronted by mine.  The smell rises and methinks The Bard was right about the aroma of Denmark.

I do not agree with your opinion on this subject but to this point I have been studiously polite to you.  I have complimented your obvious intellect but I am now questioning other aspects of your contribution to my opinion.

I think that the fact that this forum finds it necessary to in effect censor John Locke with a locked (how delightful) thread says something about the level of paranoia rearding the questioning of Authortative Opinion or Established Fact that is insideously infltrating our collective consciousness.

We are way past 1984 (or are some of us caught in a time warp yearning for the 1950s)

Stannum

Anonymous wrote:

[Dummy thread header after splitting thread - do not delete!]

How about putting the rest of the posts that relate to this question in this thread not just a chosen few????

Where are all the pearls of wisdom from Mr Pedantic's perfect position??

Stannum

Weird rules in this cloister