Armenian Genocide

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Nyla  #209189  Fri, 24 Mar 06 02:04 PM

Hi everybody!

I don't doubt about what Nonconformist wrote,but at my university the professor told us that those "migrations" are "death marchs",instead.She added also that Hitler took this remark in 1944-45 when the concentrantion camps were,little by little,setted free by the Allies.The death marchs were used to kill the prisoners,after that the nazi took out them of the lagers..they didn't want to leave proofs of the final solution... Sad [:(]

Now,I don't want to offend Nonconformist,or others,this is just what the professor told us during a lesson.. Embarrassed [:$]

  
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Etikan  #214748  Wed, 12 Apr 06 07:51 PM
this page can be helpful  to understand http://www.tallarmeniantale.com
  
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Anonymous  #217126  Tue, 18 Apr 06 11:07 AM
 YoungCalifornian wrote:

I decided to create a topic in this forum, because I found myself debating the truth of the Armenian genocide with some others in the Discussion forums.  It is indeed controversial, so I thought it would be better to discuss such a subject over here.

For those unfamiliar, the Armenian genocide is said to have been perpetrated by the Ottoman Empire between the years 1915 and 1923. According to some sources, 1.5 million are Armenian died at the hands of the Turks.  However, Turkey continues to deny that such a genocide occurred and was sanctioned by the Ottoman goverment.  The controversy lies therein.

I  believe that the Armenian genocide did occur.  My grandfather is the son of Armenian immigrants to the United States, thus the issue is a bit personal to me.

No matter how much you try to make the world believe in this so called genocide, there is no concrete evidence but rumours about it. many ottoman even armanian sources show that the  total population of armanian even  was lower than the number said to have been slaughtered in this so called genocide. But what armanian try to do now is to show themselves as  a pitiful nation who suffered too much ın the hands of ottomans. unfortunately the western world which is too eager to believe in everything and use it against turkish people with closed eyes   overlook the reality ...

  
Anonymous  #217143  Tue, 18 Apr 06 12:10 PM

When armenians killed thousands of Turks why wasn't that a genocide??Aren't Turks human???They don't see Turks as human so they don't accept that as genocide , if armenians hadn't killed Turks, Turks wouldn't have killed them too..To be a genocide , armenians must be innocents. But they weren't innocent.In war time if someone kills someone , the others kill the otherones ,this is rule. Armenians saying this lie because they are playing a dirty game ,they want northeastern Turkey. This is their primary aim. To achieve this aim, they say these lies to the world.And they show unreal photograhps which fanatic armenians made photomontage.

  
Anonymous  #221805  Tue, 02 May 06 01:22 PM

armanian genocide is actually a lie .because armanians dont love the turkısh people and says this lie . ok turkısh peoples killed some armenian people but this is not a genocide. however armenians killed 100.000 turkish peoples in turkey.  and you ; you dont make any searh of this genocide (!)

if you want to learn the true you came turkey and visit to agri and look the turkısh rip.

and ATATURK says peace in home peace in world.

DOA

 
  
Anonymous  #226670  Thu, 18 May 06 10:45 PM

Hi. All different people wants have a Their states. Armanian peoples too. But they didn't only want. They began to killed Turks people. Russian and especially France gave a lot of gun,bomb etc. Because Ottoman Empire is ill. At the and of they started kill turks women, child man and burn to Turks buildings, house everythings with France lejyoner- Russian soldier. Dead al olt of turks and armanian, becuse there was a big war which began to armanian people. If you want to search this war, please read Russian - England, Ottoman and Usa archives. History never writing later....... 

  
Anonymous  #228360  Wed, 24 May 06 08:22 AM
 Anonymous wrote:
No matter how much you try to make the world believe in this so called genocide, there is no concrete evidence but rumours about it. many ottoman even armanian sources show that the  total population of armanian even  was lower than the number said to have been slaughtered in this so called genocide. But what armanian try to do now is to show themselves as  a pitiful nation who suffered too much ın the hands of ottomans. unfortunately the western world which is too eager to believe in everything and use it against turkish people with closed eyes   overlook the reality ...
Many Americans believe that the Armenian genocide occurred. I suspect that almost none of them believe in it due to negative feelings toward the Turks. I think that perhaps you are fooled by the Turkish government. In the United States, we believe that the Turks are lied to by their government, just as the Chinese, etc. are lied to by their government. We believe that we are the only ones who are not lied to by our government. Surprise, all governments lie at will, and most citizens tend to believe their government. You claim that the reality is that there was no Armenian genocide. Can you tell us how you know absolutely that this is undisputable fact?
  
Janissary  #228570  Wed, 24 May 06 03:20 PM

No Anon. The matter is if it was a genocide or not.

Thus,Turks points out arguments about why it wasnt a genocide. Armenians tried to be independent with the help of Russia and other allies.Freedom is not cheap and wasnt cheap at that time either. They tried but they couldnt achieve.

To return the real matter,that is if it was a genocide or not, Turks assert that if Ottoman Empire had wanted to make a genocide or ethnic cleansing, they would have done that several times before,instead of giving Armenians the most important levels of social strata. You may not know but there were several Armaneins who were at the top of administration and also commerce. And if you even look today Turkey's commercial and busniess structure you can see several Armenians at the top of the lists as remainders of those.

On the other hand,i am sure many government already know that it is a different case.Take France into consideration. France slaughtered 200.000 - 250.000 people in Africa (especially in Algeria as you know as a colony of France).Where is the compensation. Once upon a time i read that, in France biology books it is written that African people are born as dumbs they have no intelligence and thus, these Africans should be worked only in most hard but not intelligence required jobs. And they even published these in books in Africa as official school books.Not only France,you also know the atrocity of British in colonials as governing the world.As a recent example,Mlosevic and Serbia. You know,i cant even imagine.

Anyway,i dont know if we are deceived by goverment or not.Scrutinizing the different cases of ethnic cleansing and genocides of world I think that that is too much for Turkey.

regards

  
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Manindarkness  #229565  Sat, 27 May 06 11:02 AM
It is certain that some people from both sides were died. but if we consider the condiions of the time, the poorness of the Empire, the Wars between Ottoman Empire and lots of other countries, the lack of army, the lack of food, etc... we can conclude that it's inevitable. there were nearly 1.6 million Armenians at that time in the Ottoman Land,(it is clear from the documents in Ottoman archives). and the number of deaths is 600.000 Armenian(but this number includes all deaths; deaths from health problems, deaths because of old age, deaths because of war, etc...) I can't say that Turkey or Ottoman's did not kill anybody. yes they did. but as we all know genocide has some definite characterictics. they are mentioned in the United Nations Aggrement. I far as I remember it must be the 21st item.
 
First of all did they killed Armenians just because of they were Armenians? no.
                  did they establish some certain places for killing them as Hitler did? no. (And also there is one more point, is it too simple to kill millions of people in such a short time? one must establish an oven or something else to kill these huge number of people, but there is none)
                  Is there any mass grave of them? no. but in Erzurum, in Agri, in different cities in the Eastern Turkey they still find new mass graves of Turkish people.
 
I wanna give an example about the explanation of genocide: imagine that there were two villages; one is A, the other is B. people in A and B are different in terms of what you want religion, race, colour, etc...
1-One day people in B attack on A and killed nearly all the people there and steal something.
2- One day people in B attack on A and steal nearly all the things and killed some of them.
 
One of the examples here is a genocide. the first one of course. because the aim is to kill them because of some reasons(their race, colour, religion,etc.) other is not, because the aim is robbery or something else but not to kill them.
 
 
 
And also they had great positions in Ottoman government. they could even  become a Pasha, which wasone of the biggest ranks at that time.
And again in the archives which the Turkish government opened to those who claim this genocide,  we can see that Ottoman Empire made some bills to protect the Armenians, for example; their goods they left behind must have been protected and after the war when they came back, those goods must have been given back... Or between the wars Empire sent them army forces just for the sake of protecting them from Kurdish, Arabic and other attacks, because they were allowed to take their money and goods with them.
 
How can one say that "Oh, there was an Armenian Genocide made by Turks(Ottomans)"?
There is not any GENOCIDE, but say ok there is, how they can want land, money ,etc.. from Turkish Government? As written in U.N. Aggrement, Genocide is the crime of a person, not of the governments or states.
 
 
  
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