[title]Family quotes[/title] [description]Welcome to our family quotes section! Here you'll find some of the funniest (and wisest) quotes on the subject of family life![/description]
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Latest post Mon, Oct 19 2009 3:27 PM by Anonymous. 5 replies.
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sebayanpendam  +  942991 Thu, 15 Oct 09 10:44 AM
Hi,
being L2 learner of English, it is difficult for me to understand the nature of the article'a', 'the' and zero article. basically, i know some rules of using them, but not at the advanced level. can someone please explain more about these articles?

thanks.
Joined on Wed, Apr 30 2008
Sarawak
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Cool Breeze  +  943068 Thu, 15 Oct 09 12:34 PM
Your question is far too broad to be dealt with in detail here. Thick books have been written about the usage of the articles. If you post examples of sentences that you find problematic, you'll get more replies. Try not to include many sentences in one post, please!


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"I hope you'll all live to be 150 years old - and the last voice you hear is mine!" Frank Sinatra on stage in Oslo, Norway, 28 September 1991
sebayanpendam  +  946961 Mon, 19 Oct 09 11:26 AM
Hi, again.

This is an extract of a reader's digest in which 'the' and 'a' are used. I can't quite pin down why the isresent in most of this paragraph because from what i know we use 'a' to introduce new objects and 'the' for the rest of a paragraph.
here's the example,

i'm inside an 88-by-10-foot shack with no roof, unless you count the yellow plastic sheet with a huge hole hanging above one corner. the room is bare except for a broken TV, some cracked crockery, bundles of clothes in plastic bags, an three large tin pots.

1) the yellow sheet
2) a huge hole hanging
3)a broken TV, some cracked crockery, bundles of clothes

Another thing is why sometimes a writer places 'the' before a noun in a new sentence. for example,
the teacher should know all of her students in the classroom she is teaching.
As though, the is an alternative of the plural 'teachers'.

Thank you.
Ivanhr  +  946978 Mon, 19 Oct 09 11:45 AM
Hi,

 

 The yellow plastic sheet complies with the first and second mention rule because "an 88 by 10 foot shack" has been previously mentioned and the yellow plastic sheet is considered an integral part of the shack just as a roof is considered an integral part of a house (or a shack for that matter). Both "a huge hole and a broken TV" cannot be considered integral parts (not every shack has them) thus taking an a before them.

 

With regard to your second question the teacher here means all teachers and the structure (the + singular countable noun) is used to generalize.

Joined on Fri, Oct 2 2009
Full Member 199
MrPernickety  +  946997 Mon, 19 Oct 09 12:20 PM
Hi, sebayanpendam

 

It is with deep regret that I must inform you that there is NO rule that would tell you what article to pick. There're a great many guidelines out there but upon close examination they are inadequate, in other words they account for a few examples and won't work any further. And how to apply them sometimes is not clear.

I can identify with you as I've been struggling with articles for a long while and I can tell you that reading books/watching movies and paying close (even painstaking) attention to what you're reading/watching goes a long way, compared to learning boring rules. But it is a painstaking process, you have to put your back into it.

I myself am no fan of rules, I can think of a few people who know all kinds of rules and their language still sucks. On the other hand, native speakers, for the most part, know no rules whatsoever and they will never misuse an article.

The main problem with rules, in my opinion, is that they are ever so crippling. There are so many of them and to hold them all in your head is very difficult, let alone apply them when needed. You will spend the better part of your conversation racking your brain trying to come up with the pertinent rule, rather than thinking of what to say next.

You'd do much better to just remember set phrases/expressions/collocations/idioms, I think.

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Anonymous, 38 days ago
I agree and disagree.   I disagree with your statement that there is no rule that would tell you what article to choose.  There are certainly a lot of rules.  However, I agree with your opinion that it would be better for a non-native language speaker to learn the rules for articles passively--by listening and practicing, rather than learning the rules and trying to apply them as they are trying to speak.

 

I think it is very important for English or ESL teachers to be able to explain the basic rules for article use.  I also think it's a good idea for teachers to be prepared to answer a few more questions about article use in detail, but also explain to ESL students that aquisition is best achieved through listening and practice, not through learning rules. (The same point you were making) Thanks

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