New2grammar  +  530241 Fri, 20 Jun 08 06:29 PM If an attacker caused a pregnant woman to lose her baby, is it an attempted murder or murder? Thanks in advance. New2grammar Joined on Tue, Nov 21 2006 Veteran Member 7,676 Who wants to go sailing around the world with me?

	Grammar Geek  +  530244 Fri, 20 Jun 08 06:34 PM It will depend on the law where it happened whether it can be considered murder. I would NOT be attempted murder (for the baby, although depending on the nature of the assault, it could possibly be attempted murder on the pregnant woman). I think there may be cases in which the pregnant woman died, and the person was charged with two counts of murder, one for the baby and one for the mother. I'm not sure there have been cases in which someone caused the baby to die without otherwise significantly harming the mother, and was charged with murder.   Grammar Geek Joined on Tue, Jan 10 2006 Veteran Member 19,683 Barbara, who answers in American English. My housekeeping skills attest to the truth of the second law of thermodynamics: Left to themselves, things get more and more random!

	optilang  +  530247 Fri, 20 Jun 08 06:36 PM  Usual starting point - without being a legal expert - I suppose it depends on the evidence. There could be a case for both - attempted murder of the mother and murder of the unborn child. More facts would be needed to determine whether a prosecution might be possible, such as what was the nature of the attack on the mother. What was it that caused ther mother to lose the baby?   optilang Joined on Tue, May 13 2008 Poland Senior Member 2,522 OptiNative British English Speaker Wherever I may roam, I'm still a Londoner.

	New2grammar  +  530249 Fri, 20 Jun 08 06:40 PM Full context: The guy shot the 'mother' in the stomach and killed the baby but the mom survived. Motive: Unknown to me. New2grammar

	Clive  +  530250 Fri, 20 Jun 08 06:40 PM Hi, The legal issue is, of course, whether an unborn baby is considered a person. There is an obvious connection to the question of abortion. Best wishes, Clive Clive Joined on Thu, Oct 28 2004 Canada Veteran Member 29,668 El tango argentino es un pensamiento triste que se puede bailar (The tango argentino is a sad thought which can be danced) Enrique Santos Discépolo

	New2grammar  +  530252 Fri, 20 Jun 08 06:44 PM Sorry. I left out another piece of information. The mother was 5 month pregnant at the time. So, If I'm correct, it's considered a life. New2grammar

	Clive  +  530254 Fri, 20 Jun 08 06:52 PM Hi, Not necessarily. Not in Canada, for example. It depends on the laws of the particular country concerned. Clive Clive

	optilang  +  530255 Fri, 20 Jun 08 06:54 PM  I don't think we have enough information to be sure. However, if the guy shot the mother in the stomach then I think attempted murder could stand as a charge, as you generally don't shoot people unless you want to kill. Now, the unborn child is a different matter - there could have been no intent to kill the unborm child, so perhaps a lesser charge of manslaughter might be appropriate. BUT, I'm not a legal wizard.  optilang

	Clive  +  530284 Fri, 20 Jun 08 07:38 PM Hi, With regard to the unborn child, I don't think intention is the primary issue. As non-layers, let's consider a simple dictionary definition of murder. The unlawful premeditated killing of a human being. Any Canadian defence lawyer would immediately argue in court that an unborn child is not yet a human being and that, since a baby is not a human being, you can't be charged with murdering it. Best wishes, Clive Clive Regards