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This is a discussion thread.
Latest post Fri, Apr 16 2004 4:26 PM by Usenet. 17 replies.
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Larry G
871277
Mon, 05 Apr 04 10:47 PM
I was watching "the Croc Hunter" the other day and thoroughly enjoyed listening to the accent. I find the way Australians pronounce vowels fascinating. One word I was particularly fascinated with and find hard to mimic is how Steve Irwin pronounced the word "zoo". It seemed like there were two variations of the "u" vowel happening there. Any Aussies in the group care to tackle an IPA, or other, representation of that one? Larry
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Areff
871363
Mon, 05 Apr 04 11:43 PM
"I was watching "the Croc Hunter" the other day and thoroughly enjoyed listening to the accent. I find the way ... "u" vowel happening there. Any Aussies in the group care to tackle an IPA, or other, representation of that one?" It might be something like (zuy), I think. There's this fronting of /w/ in various diphthongs, where the /w/ or /U/ is the second component of the diphthong, in a number of commonly-heard British and Australian accents, it seems to me. Something quite similar occurs in certain Southern US accents. Indeed, there seems to me (AIJARA) to be a common vowel shift among Australian (etc.), much of Southeastern US, and a good deal of Southern England (esp. Cockney, Estuary and the like). Consider, for example, the lowering of the /eI/ vowel, as in "g'day" (common AusE greeting if the cinema is any guide). Slow it down several seconds and you have a Southeastern US speaker saying the same thing.
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Jonathan Jordan
871853
Tue, 06 Apr 04 11:36 AM
"I was watching "the Croc Hunter" the other day and thoroughlyenjoyed listening to the accent. I find the way Australians pronouncevowels fascinating." You should try New Zealand. "One word I was particularly fascinated with and find hard ... care to tackle an IPA, or other,representation of that one?" "It might be something like (zuy), I think. There's this fronting of/w/ in various diphthongs, where the /w/ or /U/ ... in a number of commonly-heard British and Australianaccents, it seems to me. Something quite similar occurs in certain SouthernUS accents." I think that in a lot of British accents, the whole vowel is fronted, producing something like (u") (which I think is my own pronunciation) or (y), or maybe something slightly diphthongal like (I.y). I'm not sure what happens in AusE, though. "Indeed, there seems to me (AIJARA) to be a common vowel shift among Australian (etc.), much of Southeastern US, and ... the cinema is any guide). Slow it down several secondsand you have a Southeastern US speaker saying the same thing." That certainly fits with Labov's description of the Southern Shift. I associate the lowering of (the first element of) /e/ with south-east England to some extent, but especially with "broad" Australian English ("Strine") and Brummie. (Note that Brummie is not particularly "southern" in some other respects - it uses a short (a) in "bath" and tends towards (U) in "cut".) The /u/-fronting thing isn't restricted to the South, though it is quite noticeable in Estuary. It's also noticeable in Scouse, and unlike in Estuary it happens there before /l/ as well, producing things like (sky@l) for "school". Jonathan
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Peter Moylan
872220
Wed, 07 Apr 04 12:33 AM
Larry G infrared: "I was watching "the Croc Hunter" the other day and thoroughly enjoyed listening to the accent. I find the way ... "u" vowel happening there. Any Aussies in the group care to tackle an IPA, or other, representation of that one?" I see you're not getting any responses from Australians in this thread. The problem is that our own pronunciation sounds "normal", so it's hard to hear the variations. As far as I'm concerned, I pronounce the vowel in "zoo" pretty much the same way I hear the vowels in "My name is Sue, how do you do". There might be a little bit of a glide in there, something like (zV"Uw). I can say this much: I would feel deeply insulted if anyone thought I spoke like Steve Irwin. Peter Moylan (Email Removed) http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software)
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Larry G
872307
Wed, 07 Apr 04 01:51 AM
"Larry G infrared:" "I was watching "the Croc Hunter" the other day and ... care to tackle an IPA, or other, representationof that one?" "I see you're not getting any responses from Australians in this thread. The problem is that our own pronunciation sounds ... is Sue, how do you do". There might be a little bit of a glide in there, something like (zV"Uw)." Yeah, that kind of represents it. "I can say this much: I would feel deeply insulted if anyone thought I spoke like Steve Irwin." Hehe, sorry. I know what you mean. I think it's kind of interesting. But, I understand whenever I hear someone attempting to do an American accent, and it comes out sounding rural Texan. The reason I'm fascinated with it is that I can hear so many similarities with American Southern accents, even though the two are of course very different. There are many Australian accents I've heard from very British posh (Errol Flynn is an Aussie) to very American sounding to that of Steve Irwin. Quite a lot of variation actually from what I've heard. I'm surprised it isn't more documented. Larry
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Peter Moylan
872384
Wed, 07 Apr 04 04:41 AM
Larry G infrared: "There are many Australian accents I've heard from very British posh (Errol Flynn is an Aussie) to very American sounding to that of Steve Irwin. Quite a lot of variation actually from what I've heard. I'm surprised it isn't more documented." In Australia - as in most other countries, I suppose - accent variation has both a social component and a regional component, but what's unusual about Australian English is that there's very little variation from city to city. Even Australians have trouble guessing the origins of other native-born Australians because there are so few regional markers. The initial white settlement was primarily to a single point (Sydney), unlike in the USA where different waves went to different parts of the east coast, so there was an immediate "melting pot" effect where multiple accents merged to form a lingua franca. Within a few generations travel became easy enough to give us a very mobile population. My own speech has been influenced by several parts of the country, together with some foreign influence, and in that respect I'm fairly typical. The Macquarie Dictionary people have a project that attempts to map regional variations, but as far as I can tell they're mapping only the distribution of some words, which is different from mapping accent. The effect of social class is considerably greater, even though we claim to have a classless society. I think linguists now distinguish about four general layers, from "cultured" to "broad". The main influence here is education rather than wealth, although I've noticed that Toorak - one of the wealthiest and snobbiest suburbs in the country - seems to have an accent that's considerably more "English" than my own. That much is documented. Something that's not as well documented, as far as I know, is the variation in rural accents. It doesn't take much travelling around the country to realise that there's a big difference between rural accents and city accents. Furthermore, the rural accents differ from region to region, although the city accents don't (apart from some minor details). A while back I had occasion to phone a cousin I hadn't seen since childhood, and who lives in the town where my grandparents used to live. I've moved about a lot, while he has lived in the same small town all his life. I was immediately struck by the huge difference between his speech and mine. It was almost like a foreign language at first, but within a few seconds I was able to adapt, because it was an accent I had known (but not spoken) in my childhood. In fact, when I was a child I could tell the difference between the accents of that small town and the next town twenty miles down the road. Peter Moylan (Email Removed) http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software)
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Sara Lorimer
873218
Wed, 07 Apr 04 09:28 PM
"The effect of social class is considerably greater, even though we claim to have a classless society." What is John Howard's accent? SML Dalg! Glidj! Blimlimlim! http://pirate-women.com
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Peter Moylan
873405
Thu, 08 Apr 04 12:24 AM
Sara Lorimer infrared: "The effect of social class is considerably greater, even though we claim to have a classless society." "What is John Howard's accent?" At the end of the day, when all is said and done, I'd have to say that he has a strong "John Howard" accent. OK, if you want to put it into one of the standard boxes, I suppose it's "general educated Australian"; but with a few rough edges that are very noticeably Howardesque. When the radio comedians do a parody of John Howard, they never have to explain who they're imitating. For a slightly more upper-crust Australian English, listen to our Foreign Minister Alexander Downer, the man born with a silver foot in his mouth. Peter Moylan (Email Removed) http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software)
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Rich Wales
874536
Fri, 09 Apr 04 06:46 PM
"One word I was particularly fascinated with and find hard to mimic is how Steve Irwin pronounced the word "zoo"." "Areff" replied: "It might be something like (zuy), I think." My own perception is that this vowel sound starts out as an unrounded low back vowel, then glides into an unrounded low front vowel. In other words, it starts out kind of like "oo", but with relaxed and partly open lips and then the tongue moves forward while the lips remain in the same position. This is similar to what Areff suggested, I think, but with loose lips. Rich Wales (Email Removed) http://www.richw.org
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