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Latest post Mon, Dec 11 2006 4:08 PM by Hela. 10 replies.
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Hela  +  302579 Sun, 10 Dec 06 08:48 PM

Dear teachers,

Would you please tell me what's the difference between the words "barbarism" and "solecism" ?

Would you say that a sentence such as "My mother seems has grown young again" is an example of solecism ? (= pure nonsense ?)

Best regards,
Hela

Joined on Mon, Nov 15 2004
Tunisia
Regular Member 831
Tam Sadek  +  302587 Sun, 10 Dec 06 10:23 PM

From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solecism:

Barbarism is a term used by some people to refer to a non-standard pronunciation, word or expression in a language. Whereas solecism is a grammatical or other mistake or absurdity.

From these definitions it would appear to be an example of a solecism.

Hope that helps...

Joined on Wed, Oct 4 2006
Full Member 265
The more you see, the less you know...
Clive  +  302593 Sun, 10 Dec 06 10:42 PM

Hi Hela,

Would you please tell me what's the difference between the words "barbarism" and "solecism" ?

For questions like this, it's usually good to look at the historical origins, the roots, of the terms.

barbarism The roots of this word relate to 'foreign speech'. The idea is basically that foreigners speak poorly, so a barbarism would be some way that a barbarian would misuse the language of civilized people. Barbarisms often result from what purists consider to be using a word in an improper way.

Someone who produces a 'barbarism' is considered to be someone who cannot be expected to know any better.

solecism The word is derived from the name 'Soloi'. The Athenians spoke excellent Greek, but they all believed that Athens's colony at Soloi spoke terrible Greek, with awful grammar.

Someone who produces a 'solecism' is considered to be someone who, really, should know better.

Would you say that a sentence such as "My mother seems has grown young again" is an example of solecism ? (= pure nonsense ?) No, not at all. There is a minor grammar error, but the basic meaning seems rather beautiful, quite complimentary to the speaker's mother.

Best wishes, Clive

Joined on Thu, Oct 28 2004
Canada
Veteran Member 31,003
El tango argentino es un pensamiento triste que se puede bailar (The tango argentino is a sad thought which can be danced) Enrique Santos Discépolo
Tam Sadek  +  302595 Sun, 10 Dec 06 10:47 PM

From the Wikipedia link I cited above:

Modern descriptive linguistics generally dismisses the notion of solecisms, concentrating on how language is used, rather than how it ought to be used.

Clive  +  302620 Mon, 11 Dec 06 12:15 AM

Hi,

Although if I took that approach in my classroom, I'd be out of a job.Wink [;)]

My students don't want me to leave their English as it is spoken by them.

Clive

MrPedantic  +  302648 Mon, 11 Dec 06 02:01 AM

1. *My mother seems has grown young again.

In English c. 1600, the "seems" might have been a parenthetical ellipsis ("it seems"):

2. My mother (seems) has grown young again.

It's better not to try this now, though.

MrP

Joined on Tue, Oct 12 2004
Veteran Member 12,679
...opella forensis / adducit febris...
Hela  +  302701 Mon, 11 Dec 06 06:24 AM

Thank you all for your help. Smile [:)]

Clive, why don't you think that "My mother seems has grown younger again" is a solecism since you seem to consider it as a minor grammar mistake?

All the best,

Hela

Clive  +  302707 Mon, 11 Dec 06 06:38 AM

Hi Hela,

Would you say that a sentence such as "My mother seems has grown young again" is an example of solecism ? (= pure nonsense ?)

Clive, why don't you think that "My mother seems has grown younger again" is a solecism since you seem to consider it as a minor grammar mistake?

1. Because it's just a minor grammar error, at least in terms of the errors we encounter daily on the Forum. A solecism is not just another word for any kind of grammar error.

2. Because the Forum is a place for English learners, who are not expected to have perfect English. I said earlier that someone who produces a 'solecism' is considered to be someone who, really, should know better.

 3. As I noted, the basic meaning seems rather beautiful, quite complimentary to the speaker's mother. 

4. Your own definition of a solecism is 'pure nonsense', and this sentence is not nonsense. 

Best wishes, Clive

Hela  +  302713 Mon, 11 Dec 06 07:28 AM

First, I understand that my definition of 'solecism' is erroneous, it doesn't mean "pure nonsense".

Second, since I am a regular user of this forum and a student of English, I shouldn't make such a grammar mistake. So if I did, would you consider it a solecism?

Looking forward to your reply. Big Smile [:D]

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