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Latest post Mon, Jul 6 2009 9:23 AM by myid. 6 replies.
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myid  +  804474 Fri, 03 Jul 09 02:18 PM
Dear all,


Nobody answers my below question, so I am posting this again.

Please someone helps me out.


I can find many examples in which bare infinitive is followed by than.
Are they grammatically correct?
If so, please explain to me why bare infinitive is used.

For your reference, I know that zero infinitive can be used in several cases like after auxiliary verbs, causative verbs, etc.
But, I can't find any articles confirming "to" can be left out after "than".

Thank you.


[examples]

NPR has done much more than simply repurpose its own material for podcasts.
The Soviet regime did much more than simply occupy territories.
Food does so much more than simply fill our bellies.

Joined on Thu, Jul 2 2009
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Cool Breeze  +  804508 Fri, 03 Jul 09 02:50 PM
myid
“For your reference, I know that zero infinitive can be used in several cases like after auxiliary verbs, causative verbs, etc.
But, I can't find any articles confirming "to" can be left out after "than".”

The omission of to has nothing to do with than. To is omitted because of do:


Do you to like him?

Does he to know it?

I didn't to see it.

He does to like her.

He does more than to like her.


CB

Joined on Fri, Apr 7 2006
Senior Member 3,979
"I hope you'll all live to be 150 years old - and the last voice you hear is mine!" Frank Sinatra on stage in Oslo, Norway, 28 September 1991
myid  +  804545 Fri, 03 Jul 09 03:24 PM
Dear CB,


You mean "do" is used as auxilary verb in my examples?

Can you explain what is the grammatical function of "done" in the following sentence?

You don't say it is used for emphasis.


NPR has done much more than simply repurpose its own material for podcasts.


In addtion, I don't understand what you mean by "He does more than like her."

If does is used as auxiliary verb, so it can be removed, the setence will be "He more than likes her."

Is this grammartically correct?

Apart from the grammar, I don't get the meaning.

Yankee  +  804710 Fri, 03 Jul 09 06:41 PM
Hi Myid


myid
“I can find many examples in which bare infinitive is followed by than.”
I assume you meant to say "in which than is followed by a bare infinitive".


I think CB has given you good examples that illustrate the logical omission of "to" before the base form of a verb in many cases.


In addition, I'd like to add that there are simply a number of grammatical situations in which you can choose either the to-infinitive or the bare infinitive. So, why don't you just look at the word "to" as having been ellided rather than drive yourself crazy over the question?


(Note that I used "rather than drive" in my last sentence.) 


I notice that all of your examples contain "much more than simply", so it seems appropriate to consider the entire phrase, and not just the word "than" alone. In addition, it seems to me that the use of "simply" may be significant in your sentences.


Now, some may argue that what we have in your sentences, as well as in my "rather than drive" sentence, is simply a situation in which the word "to" has been ellided or is simply optional. Some may argue that in my sentence the use of the base form of the verb is simply good parallel structure (i.e. "Why don't you look... rather than drive..."). However, I would suggest that all of those sentences also smack of the subjunctive. And as you may know, the present subjunctive is identical in form to the bare infinitive.


The phrase "much more than simply (do)" suggests that the speaker is stating something that is contrary to what someone else may believe or to what someone else has actually stated as fact. My sentence used the phrase "rather than", and my sentence boils down to the idea that "I recommend that you not do X, but that you do Y instead" (i.e. subjunctive use of "do").


Let's look at your NPR sentence.

myid
“NPR has done much more than simply repurpose its own material for podcasts.”
That sentence might be seen as a contradiction of sorts in that the speaker basically says that "NPR did not simply repurpose". The sentence suggests that the speaker disagrees with someone. The sentence suggests that other people believe or may believe that NPR's repurposing was just a simple act, and it was the only thing NPR did. In other words, others may think that NPR did not do anything else beyond that simple act, and/or the repurposing had no further implications beyond the simple act of repurposing. The speaker of your sentence in essence says that is not true -- it is contrary to fact.


Others may not agree with my "subjunctive" ideas here, but that's how I might look at these examples.

Joined on Sat, Apr 15 2006
Connecticut, USA
Veteran Member 6,506
Amy "You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus." - Mark Twain
CalifJim  +  804938 Fri, 03 Jul 09 09:48 PM
myid
“I can find many examples in which bare infinitive is followed by than.
Are they grammatically correct?
If so, please explain to me why bare infinitive is used.”
I think you mean "preceded by than".  Yes.  They are correct.  Many uses of an infinitive after than take to optionally.


What could we do other than (to) wait?

Jack prefers to sing rather than (to) dance.

Is it better to be good than (to) do good?


When there is no verb before than that parallels, in some sense, the verb after than, the to seems to be required.


There was no option other than to run for our lives.

?There was no option other than run for our lives.


Note that inflected forms can also occur after than.


The chairman was so angry that you could say he screamed more than communicated during most of the meeting.


I'm sure that there's a research paper somewhere that attempts to analyze all the in's and out's of these constructions.  It's more complex than first meets the eye.  As far as I know, there are no established rules for the use of verbs after than.  The few "rules" that I alluded to above are pure speculation.


CJ

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004
California
Veteran Member 22,475
"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche
pkr  +  805099 Fri, 03 Jul 09 11:58 PM

My try:

 

All NPR did was (to) repurpose its own material for podcasts.

NPR has done much more than (All NPR did was (to) )simply repurpose its own material for podcasts.

NPR has done much more than simply repurpose its own material for podcasts.

 

The bare infinitive is found characteristically in pseudo-cleft sentences, where the infinitival to is optional: 
What they did was (to) dig a shallow channel around the tent.

pkr
Joined on Mon, Jun 29 2009
New Member 27
myid  +  808526 Mon, 06 Jul 09 09:23 AM
Dear All,


Thank you very much for your help.

I owed you a lot.

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