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Latest post Wed, Jun 27 2007 1:09 PM by Forbes. 108 replies.
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milky  +  370291 Fri, 25 May 07 11:35 AM

Are these definitions of prescriptivism and descriptivism a good place to start for someone who wishes to know the differences in the two ways of thinking?

"Prescriptivism is based on the view that one variety of language is inherently superior to others and that this more highly valued variety should be imposed on the whole of a particular speech community."

"Descriptivism is based on the view that the assignment of a superior status to one variety of language is often arbitrary and is more likely to be the result of socio-economic factors than of intrinic linguistic factors."

From Keywords in Language and Literacy. By Ronald Carter

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Hume said that if we had perfect or complete descriptive knowledge of reality, we could not, by reasoning, derive a single valid "ought".
Forbes  +  370463 Fri, 25 May 07 09:01 PM

They seem fine to begin to define the difference.

What is lacking, and what can be a bridge between the two positions, is the notion of "appropriateness".

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milky  +  370515 Fri, 25 May 07 11:09 PM
 Forbes wrote:

They seem fine to begin to define the difference.

What is lacking, and what can be a bridge between the two positions, is the notion of "appropriateness".

I think quite a few descriptivists have already built that bridge.

MrPedantic  +  370587 Sat, 26 May 07 02:34 AM

"Descriptivism is based on the view that the assignment of a superior status to one variety of language is often arbitrary..."

That's interesting. Why "often"?

In what circumstances would it not be arbitrary, in the speaker's opinion?

MrP

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...opella forensis / adducit febris...
milky  +  370689 Sat, 26 May 07 07:45 AM
 MrPedantic wrote:

"Descriptivism is based on the view that the assignment of a superior status to one variety of language is often arbitrary..."

That's interesting. Why "often"?

In what circumstances would it not be arbitrary, in the speaker's opinion?

MrP

When it's based on "intrinisic linguistic features", I guess

milky  +  370691 Sat, 26 May 07 07:59 AM

Would you say that this (from the same book as above) is true:

"Both (prescriptivist and descriptivists) agree that acqusition of the standard language is necessary but argue that different routes and procedures for its aquisition are necessary."

MrPedantic  +  370764 Sat, 26 May 07 12:57 PM
 Milky wrote:

When it's based on "intrinisic linguistic features", I guess

I'm struggling to think of an intrinsic linguistic factor that could confer superior status on one variety of language.

Can anyone else think of one?

MrP

MrPedantic  +  370767 Sat, 26 May 07 01:07 PM
 Milky wrote:

"Both (prescriptivist and descriptivists) agree that acqusition of the standard language is necessary but argue that different routes and procedures for its aquisition are necessary."

Many speakers don't acquire "the standard language"; the latter is therefore clearly not necessary, in any absolute sense. So it's difficult to see how that statement could form part of a descriptivist position.

Prescriptivists on the other hand are not necessarily concerned with the general acquisition of standard language: the author of a style guide may be concerned solely with conferring a perceived advantage on his readers, e.g.

1. Those people say X; but that's a mistake; say Y, and your English will be superior and impress editors, interviewers, the readers of the Times, etc.

Clearly, this perceived superiority depends on the existence of X-sayers.

MrP

milky  +  370783 Sat, 26 May 07 01:42 PM

<Prescriptivists on the other hand are not necessarily concerned with the general acquisition of standard language:>

But aren't many prescriptive grammars targeted at national education of children and teenagers? Don't such grammaticians collaborate world wide with education boards to bring about a situation which favours written standard English ? Or do you think that all prescriptivists write only for the publishing world?

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