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Ildhund    665855 Mon, 13 Oct 08 04:07 PM

"Ildhund wrote in uk.culture.language.english about: Big numbers"

"The news has been full of large numbers in the ... was a million millions, and 'trillion' was a million billions."

"Ah, but that was then, and this is now.. Due to varying definitions of "billion", etc, and increasing globalisation, eventually one standard definition had to be agreed upon, to avoid confusion and misinterpretation."

That was surely an admirable step to take. When was it taken, and who agreed upon this /standard/ definition?

Noel
David M    665859 Tue, 14 Oct 08 12:04 AM

"Due to varying definitions of "billion", etc, and increasing globalisation, eventually one standard definition had to be agreed upon, to avoid confusion and misinterpretation."

"That was surely an admirable step to take. When was it taken, and who agreed upon this /standard/ definition?"

Well, I honestly don't know. When I was at school in the 1980s, I'm pretty sure I recall reading somewhere (possibly outdated) that a billion was 10^12, but by the time I started paying any attention to financial news in the 1990s, I'm sure word had definitely got around that we were now using the same value as the USA, 10^9 (eg, the BBC would report, "the Government is to spend three billion that's three thousand million pounds on.." (although I may be imagining this particular example, I am sure that there were indeed frequent instances where the media went to some pain to explain what exactly was meant by 'billion')).
Mind you, at the same time, the world population figures were floating around at the 3 - 4 billion mark.. Probably when I was younger I didn't think through exactly what that meant (billion, schmillion..), although it's clear that the 10^9 value must have been meant even then..
According to a mostly-non-fictional encyclopaedia, the UK Government adopted the "short scale" value of 'billion' in 1974:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billion (word)
(the cited reference is to a recent newspaper article which merely notes this as an aside, not to a contemporary primary source)

I had assumed that this effect would have rippled around the world, in order to avoid confusion, but, according to the same Wikipedia article, it would appear that most non-English-speaking
European-language-speaking countries still use the "long scale" value (and that most non-European-language-speaking countries often tend to use their own counting systems).
Given that these are numbers in very specialist use (other than as $BIGNUM which we ordinary folk can really barely conceive of), I would imagine that anybody who does need to precisely and specifically refer to 10^9 or 10^12, etc, values would be very sure to make certain that all parties to the discussion knew exactly what was being referred to..

David M. Edinburgh, Scotland. (en,fr,(de)
Guy Macon     665879 Thu, 23 Oct 08 07:39 PM

Question: do I have the names right in the following table?

In particular, are the "in old UK System" names correct? Are they all really old (no longer used)? Are they just UK, or are/were they ever in use other places?
NAMED POWERS OF TEN and TWO
(first rough draft)
-Guy Macon
- N/A 10E+36 N/A (01) 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 - N/A 10E+33 decillion 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 - N/A 2E+100 N/A 1 267 650 600 228 229 401 496 703 205 376 - N/A 10E+30 N/A (02) 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 - N/A 2E+90 N/A 1 237 940 039 285 380 274 899 124 224 - N/A 10E+27 octillion 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 Yb Yobi- 2E+80 yottabinary 1 208 925 819 614 629 174 706 176 Y Yotta- 10E+24 septillion (03) 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 Zi Zebi- 2E+70 zettabinary 1 180 591 620 717 411 303 424 Z Zetta- 10E+21 sextillion 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 Ei Exbi- 2E+60 exabinary 1 152 921 504 606 846 976 E Exa- 10E+18 quintillion (04) 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 Pi Pebi- 2E+50 petabinary 1 125 899 906 842 624 P Peta- 10E+15 quadrillion 1 000 000 000 000 000 Ti Tebi- 2E+40 terabinary 1 099 511 627 776 T Tera- 10E+12 trillion (05) 1 000 000 000 000 Gi Gibi- 2E+30 gigabinary 1 073 741 824 G Giga- 10E+09 billion (06) 1 000 000 000 Mi Mebi- 2E+20 megabinary 1 048 576
M Mega- 10E+06 million 1 000 000
Ki kibi- 2E+10 kilobinary 1 024
k kilo- 10E+03 thousand 1 000
h hecto- 10E+02 hundred 100
da deca- 10E+01 ten 10
d deci- 10E-1 tenth 0.1
c centi- 10E-2 hundredth 0.01
m milli- 10E-3 thousandth 0.001
u micro- 10E-6 millionth 0.000 001 (Note: Greek letter Mu, not lower case U.) n nano- 10E-9 billionth (07) 0.000 000 001 p pico- 10E-12 trillionth (08) 0.000 000 000 001 f femto- 10E-15 quadrillionth 0.000 000 000 000 001 a atto- 10E-18 quintillionth (09) 0.000 000 000 000 000 001 z zepto- 10E-21 sextillionth 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 001 y yocto- 10E-24 septillionth (10) 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 001 - N/A 10E-27 octillionth 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 001 - N/A 10E-30 N/A (11) 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 001 - N/A 10E-33 decillionth 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 001 - N/A 10E-36 N/A (12) 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 001

(01) sextillion in old UK System
(02) quintillion in old UK System
(03) quadrillion in old UK System
(04) trillion in old UK System
(05) billion in old UK System
(06) milliard in old UK System
(07) milliardh in old UK System
(08) billionth in old UK System
(09) trillionth in old UK System
(10) quadrillionth in old UK System
(11) quintillionth in old UK System
(12) sextillionth in old UK System
Note: vendeka, xenna, xenno, and vendeko are bogus. Before you try using them, please read these pages: ( http://home.att.net/~numericana/answer/units.htm#prefix ) ( http://home.att.net/~numericana/answer/culture.htm#zillion ) ( http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/prefixes.html ) ( http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html )

Guy Macon
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