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+1 abortismurd  [More info]
I think that bilingual education is a great thing. Obviously, there are now two official languages of the US, Spanish and English. I live in Forsyth County Georgia and it isn't a very diverse town, although i wish it were, i disagree that hispanics keep coming over the border, as they have, i think it is good to have bilingual education due to the fact that it is very usefule to be able to communicate with your fellow citizens. I don't know if you have heard, but people who know more languages, are apt to doing better in school. Me for example, i speak english, german, korean, and spanish. I am doing well in all of my classes. Language is very mathematical, that is why i do well in trigonometry, algebra I-III, geometry, ap calculus, quantitative analysis, and ap chemistry. I feel that languages have led me to be this way. And i am not trying to sound boastful, because i think that it could be this way with everyone, generally, people just have the attitude of "people are invading my country so im gonna get them back by not knowing their language..." oh no, thats a good way, if you are going to have the negative attitude toward it at least learn the language so that you can tell them why they shouldnt be here, and sound like you know something and are intellectual instead of an idiot. -ben
Joined on Wed, Nov 17 2004
New Member 03
+1 canijoin  [More info]
can you cite some ways how to be fluent in english... i really have a hard time in speaking english.. i can understand but i find it so difficult in writing and speaking in that language. pls help me hehehe sorry if it is off topic. plss help me!!! whats the meaning of pros and cons???

[Edited: the word meaning quote is 'cite' not 'site' - matthewg]
Joined on Sat, Jan 15 2005
New Member 03
+1 matthewg  [More info]
Canijon,

Pros = advantages
Cons = disadvantages

Mike in Japan,

Many people believe that because certain concepts exist in some languages that do not exist in others, learning more than one language can enable us to think in a wider manner. If this is true it could only be good for a young, developing brain - enabling that brain to exercise and grow in areas in which it may not otherwise grow.


It's true that some concepts that exist in one language are unavailable in another. In Maltese for example, there's no differentiation between mind and brain (there's just one word: mohh), wife and woman (both mara), husband and man (both ragel), drown and sink (both ghereq), etc. If you look up husband in an English to Maltese dictionary, you'll find the definition for animal husbandry. But in Maltese there are also concepts that I find extreme difficulty expressing in English. There's a lot of fishing and farming jargon that has no English equivalent; but aside from that there are also some very typically cynical Mediterranean expressions. Maltese people keep a verbal Swiss army knife of these expressions, using them to convey thoughts even when speaking English. For example 'mutu, mutu, qrunu f'butu', which loses its effect in its English long-windedness: beware the innocent looking guy, for he keeps his Devil's horns in his back pocket.

I think that language embodies not just culture, but also a way of thinking. Being able to speak more than one language helps me to think abstractly, as I can easily discern between ways of thinking. This is why I do not completely agree with the statement 'it could only be good for a young, developing brain.' I went to an English-speaking school, and learnt Maltese quite late. Yet I can still recognise Maltese ways of thinking, or Maltese concepts. Learning Italian also helped me appreciate Sicilian ways of thinking, and their similarity to Maltese ways.

However, there is an element of truth in the statement. Brain scans of feral children show that their brains are significantly smaller than they should be. And whilst such children can be thought the meanings of single words (ball, cat, umbrella) it is impossible for them to construct sentences. This really does show how important language and communication is.

There is a very well-researched article about language acquistion on Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_acquisition

Other links:

The Nine Stages of Second Language Learning

Thinking Before you Speak - Which comes first, an idea or the language to express it?
Joined on Mon, Sep 6 2004
Full Member 395
+1 Mike in Japan  [More info]
G'day Matthewg

Being able to speak more than one language helps me to think abstractly, as I can easily discern between ways of thinking. This is why I do not completely agree with the statement 'it could only be good for a young, developing brain.'


I don't quite follow. Do you think abstract thought is not good for a developing brain? Also, do you think it is necessary to be able to discern between ways of thinking or to just think without consciously discerning which processes are being used?

My observations of my daughter lead me to believe that there is no conscious discerment in youngsters raised in a truly bilingual environment, or at least not in her case.. The thoughts happen, and then follow the appropriate language path to vocalisation quite automatically, and with no unusual outward signs of hesitation (which would indicate some conscious thought being applied to which language to employ). As I said, these are just my own amateur observations.

Maybe we are talking at cross-purposes.
Anyway, I look forward to your thoughts.

Cheers, and thanks for the links.
Joined on Tue, Aug 19 2003
The lounge
Senior Member 4,423
I do like to be beside the seaside
+1 matthewg  [More info]
Sorry, my mistake. I misunderstood the intonation of your statement completely. I thought you meant that bilinguilism would only be good for a developing brain, and would produce no effects on a developed brain. Clearly you did not mean that at all.

My observations of my daughter lead me to believe that there is no conscious discerment in youngsters raised in a truly bilingual environment, or at least not in her case.. The thoughts happen, and then follow the appropriate language path to vocalisation quite automatically, and with no unusual outward signs of hesitation.


I think you are right about this. But like a lot of Maltese people I grew up learning English, and only started learning Maltese and other languages when I was about fourteen. Because I am not truly bilingual, I still choose my words very well when speaking Maltese, even though my vocabulary is decent. The literal translation of the word for girlfriend in Maltese is 'the girl'. Because I am very conscious of what I'm saying in Maltese, I always found it extremely awkward to use this word, because I know that doing so would only provoke much rolling of eyes and an eventual row. The one time I did use this word in phone a conversation, everyone next to me just turned and stared at me like I had just farted very loudly. Conscious discernment at its very best.

In some languages, such as Maltese, it often happens that the articulation forms the thought, instead of the other way around. Maltese people use a lot of Sicilian-influenced expressions -- all very cynical, warning people to avoid obligations, keep information to yourself, beware of strangers, etc. I think that this has formed an entire way of thinking, judging by peoples' behaviour. People who speak Maltese and nothing else (there are a few surviving specimens in the villages that time forgot) can't think out of this narrow-mindedness, and it comes as no surprise that bilingual Maltese people are generally much less xenophobic, fearful, or just simply 'Mediterranean' for that matter.
+1 Mike in Japan  [More info]
lol,

Thanks Matthewg. I guess my wording was a tad ambiguous ... oops.

As you point out, the new social ideas that accompany second language learning can have consequence. For example I have students here in rural Japan who, after studying English for many years, pick up western outspokenness (for want of a better word) which can cause friction in their traditionally quiet home lives. So, I am fairly sure that truly bilingual education does no harm to the brain itself, but I wonder whether behavior appropriate to a given cultural situation occurs as automatically as it would seem language use does.
Perhaps we are moving into an area beyond bilingual education, but an interesting area nevertheless.
 
+1 David  [More info]
Mike there are problems as you suggest but there is something very enriching about being able to communicate with people in their own language. I find that it gives greater understanding of another culture.
David+0
Joined on Sat, Mar 8 2003
Regular Member 664
+1 Mike in Japan  [More info]
Yes, I couldn't agree more David. I consider myself very lucky to be in a position to help people do that.
I only wish I spent a little less time teaching English so that I could spend a little more time improving my Japanese. Nevertheless I am grateful that while my students learn English from me, I am able to learn quite a lot about Japanese culture from them. To say this was fascinating would be an understatement.
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