Guest  +  106722 Wed, 08 Jun 05 09:16 PM Question for a grammar guru. In this sentence, can the comma proceed the quote mark? Jimmy's got bad "morning breath", because he didn't brush his teeth before bed. If that's not correct, is there ever an instance when the comma can proceed the quote mark? Guest Grammar, Commas, Quotation Marks

	rvw  +  106756 Thu, 09 Jun 05 02:38 AM According to Webster's Third New International Dictionary: "In American usage printers usually place a period or comma inside closing quotation marks whether it belongs logically to the quoted matter or to the whole sentence or context.... But when a logical or exact distinction is desired in specialized work in which clarity is more important than usual (as in this dictionary), a period or comma cn be placed outside quotation marks when it belongs not in the quoted matter but to a larger unit containing the quoted matter." Since your example is not a case in which clarity is more important than usual, I think the comma should be inside the quotation marks: Jimmy's got bad "morning breath," because he didn't brush his teeth before bed. Here is an instance when the commas and the period should be outside of the quotation marks: In first-order theories in which equality is definable, we can define a special type of existential quantifier "(E! x)A", which means intuitively "there is one and only one x such that A", or simply "there is a unique x such that A". ---The Logical Foundations of Mathematics, by William S. Hatcher rvw Joined on Sun, Nov 28 2004 Woodstock, Georgia, USA Full Member 350 Commas, Quotation Marks

	khoff  +  106786 Thu, 09 Jun 05 04:50 AM I agree with rvw as far as American usage. I think it's different in Britain. khoff Joined on Sun, Mar 6 2005 Senior Member 3,275 Native speaker of American English (but not a grammar expert) Commas, Quotation Marks

	MrPedantic  +  107496 Sat, 11 Jun 05 01:45 AM Yes, usually in BrE you would put the comma after the inverted commas: 1. Jimmy's got bad "morning breath", because he didn't brush his teeth before going to bed. Though I probably wouldn't use a comma there anyway. (I'm also doubtful as to whether brushing your teeth before going to bed prevents 'morning breath'.) MrP MrPedantic Joined on Tue, Oct 12 2004 Veteran Member 12,592 ...opella forensis / adducit febris... Commas, Quotation Marks

	davkett  +  107547 Sat, 11 Jun 05 04:19 AM Also, The question is not whether the comma "proceeds", but whether it "precedes"... Or should I have punctuated it: The question is not whether the comma "proceeds," but whether it "precedes"... davkett Joined on Tue, Jun 7 2005 Pennsylvania, USA Senior Member 2,788 "The rose stays fresh in its name..." -Bernard of Morlay Commas, Quotation Marks

	CalifJim  +  107562 Sat, 11 Jun 05 05:04 AM This is an unfortunate example because we don't normally use a comma before a "because clause", i.e., when it precedes a "because clause". Supposing a comma were needed there, it would always go outside of the scare quotes, in my opinion. Quoted speech is another case. "Americans handle it like this," he said. "Even if they have 'morning breath'," she added. I doubt the last sentence would be written: "Even if they have 'morning breath,'" she added. It may even depend on which style manual you are following. CJ CalifJim Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004 California Veteran Member 22,447 "There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche Clauses, Commas, Quotation Marks