We have partnered with TradePub to bring you free industry magazines and resources - no coupons or credit cards required!

Visit: englishforums.tradepub.com


1 2
Share this topic:
This question is Not Answered
Latest post Thu, Oct 12 2006 7:15 AM by Teleostomi. 11 replies.
Suggest an answer | | |
Teleostomi  +  276399 Thu, 05 Oct 06 12:10 PM

Can't we say "Milk is rotten"? Is it really true that "off" is for milk, juice and cream? What about jelly?

1) Milk is off.

2) Jelly is rotten.

3) Jelly is off.

Joined on Sat, Jun 10 2006
Regular Member 557
Mister Micawber  +  276426 Thu, 05 Oct 06 01:38 PM

Well, you cannot say it generically, in any case.

1) This milk is off.
2) My jelly is rotten.(?)
3) The jelly is off.

Rotten in my book is saved for really nasty things, like a soggy and worm-eaten apple found behind the refrigerator or the slice of pizza I found under the bed where the cat dragged it two weeks ago and the cockroaches are now feasting.

Look how the American Heritage Dictionary defines rotten:  Being in a state of putrefaction or decay; decomposed. 2. Having a foul odor resulting from or suggestive of decay; putrid.

Pretty awful, eh?  For our quotidian existence, the milk is off or the milk has gone bad are the most common expressions, I think.  On the other hand, I recall my mother complaining that milk is so highly processed these days-- homogenized, sterilized, pumped with additives to keep it from going bad-- that it stays drinkable until it actually rots.

.
Joined on Wed, Aug 4 2004
Yokohama
Veteran Member 30,788
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master-- that's all.'
Marius Hancu, 3 yr 49 days ago
Perhaps
The milk has soured, not rotten.

Grammar Geek  +  276450 Thu, 05 Oct 06 02:25 PM

Also, spoiled.

"Here, smell this. Do you think the milk has spoiled?" But like Mr. M's mother, I probably say "gone bad" more than any other.

Joined on Tue, Jan 10 2006
Veteran Member 19,655
Barbara, who answers in American English. My housekeeping skills attest to the truth of the second law of thermodynamics: Left to themselves, things get more and more random!
FluidnMotion  +  276629 Thu, 05 Oct 06 09:27 PM

Just for kicks.

Milk getting spoilt is a bacterial activity.

Meat getting rotten is a fungal activity.

Usually bacterial activity precedes fungal activity. So, something has to be spoilt before it rots. Rotting usually happens in dead things.

Parasitic activity occurs in rotting where intruding organism eats its hosts.  In milk getting spoilt, it is just the milk and bacteria coexist changing the original characteristic of milk. 

So, technically it would be wrong to say "Milk is rotting".

As the general lingo goes in America, everything that goes inside a refrigerator is susceptible to rotting. But then, that is Americanized English.

Joined on Tue, Sep 19 2006
Michigan, United States
Full Member 150
So it is written, So it shall be done!
ewomack  +  276646 Thu, 05 Oct 06 11:05 PM

I often hear "This milk has gone bad", or, "This milk's bad". Accompanied by wincing and gagging, of course.

Saying "This milk is off" might fly in Britian, but Americans probably wouldn't understand.

Joined on Mon, Jun 14 2004
New Member 13
Ed Womack www.getmilked.com
Mister Micawber  +  276670 Fri, 06 Oct 06 01:04 AM

Milk getting spoilt is a bacterial activity.  Meat getting rotten is a fungal activity.


A neat solution, FluidnMotion-- I like it... were it not for the first entry in the online Oxford:

verb (rotted, rotting) 1 decompose by the action of bacteria and fungi.

I went looking, and there seem to be a range of definitions out there.  Overeall, rot seems to be more specific-- the action of rotting agents, while spoil tends to indicate a more general 'make unfit for consumption'.  Here is more than we need to know from the American Heritage Dictionary:

SYNONYMS:decay, rot, putrefy, spoil, crumble, molder, disintegrate, decompose These verbs refer to gradual change resulting in destruction or dissolution. Decay can denote partial deterioration short of complete destruction: Brush and floss regularly to prevent teeth from decaying. Rot is sometimes synonymous with decay, but often, like putrefy, stresses offensiveness to the sense of smell: The food left on the counter began to rot. Arctic cold prevented the prehistoric animal from putrefying. Spoil usually refers to the process by which perishable substances become unfit for use or consumption: Put the fish in the refrigerator before they spoil. Crumble implies physical breakdown into small fragments or particles: The ancient church had crumbled to ruins. To molder is to crumble to dust: The shawl had moldered away in the trunk. Disintegrate refers to complete breakdown into component parts: The sandstone façade had disintegrated from exposure to the elements. Decompose, largely restricted to the breakdown of substances into their chemical components, also connotes rotting and putrefying, both literally and figuratively: “trivial personalities decomposing in the eternity of print” (Virginia Woolf).



Teleostomi, 3 yr 48 days ago

Thank you, now I'm confident to distinguish those words!

FluidnMotion  +  276995 Fri, 06 Oct 06 04:56 PM

Now, what do we do to correct Oxford's definition.

I know...I know...you are looking for your Winchester.

I stand corrected Mr.Micawber.

1 2
© MediaCet Ltd. 2009, v5.0.3607.32596. All content posted by our users is a contribution to the public domain, this does not include imported usenet posts.*
For web related enquires please contact us on webmaster@mediacet.com, status updates are available at status.mediacet.com.
*Usenet post removal: Use 'X-No-Archive'. You may not have understood that your posts would end up in the public domain. Please send proof of the poster's email, we will remove immediately.