When to use 'is' and 'are' has caused an argument in the office

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Casi

#61995 Fri, 17 Dec 04 12:45 PM

Beautiful addition.

Casi

Joined on Sat, Sep 25 2004

Regular Member (547)

Brutus

#62062 Fri, 17 Dec 04 09:55 PM

Mr P

1. The jury consists of twelve persons (collective noun - singular).

Here, the jury is operating as a single unit.

2. The jury were divided in their opinions (noun of multitude - plural).

One can say "The jury is divided" but, as soon as you introduce the members as in "their opinions", you are deleting the first element of the subject of the sentence - i.e. the 'members of the jury'.

4. Where do Manchester Utd play? They play at Old Trafford.

This is use of a metonym - Manchester United - for the purpose of economy. The reader (or hearer) is left to assume the writer (or speaker) means certain things, namely:

(a) they play the game of football (as opposed to playing darts, or the mouth organ)

(b) we are talking about home games only - they play away games too, and

(c) we are talking about the current players in the team.

Inference plays a massive part in linguistic communication. Without it, language would be so unweildly as to be nearly impossible to use. It is for that reason we have such things as metonymy (e.g. "Israel has called for a ceasefire", "Hampshire beat Warwickshire by an innings").

Brutus

Brutus

Joined on Sat, Dec 4 2004

New Member (03)

Plurals, Nouns, Football

MrPedantic

#62076 Sat, 18 Dec 04 12:01 AM

Max from the USA: It's blue, isn't it?
Pat from Canada: Well, it's kind of an aqua-green.
Yuki from Japan: It's green.

Intriguing, Casi. I have had similar conversations about colour. If I'm Yuki, they always seem to end with Max saying, 'there must be something wrong with your eyes, then!' — a strangely emotional response.

MrP

MrPedantic

Joined on Tue, Oct 12 2004

Veteran Member (12,053)

...opella forensis / adducit febris...

Conversations

Casi

#62142 Sat, 18 Dec 04 11:07 AM

Chuckle-chuckle. SMILE But, in all fairness, having lived in Japan for the past 5 years, I have had my share of Yuki's and Max's. It's a two-way street.

In Japan, it's usually,

Situation traffic light: avoid the word
Yuki: The light is. . . Go! Hit the gas; we're backing up traffic.

Situation color of the sun: Huh?
ALT: The clouds are white, the sky is blue, and the sun is yellow.
4th grader: Huh?

Casi

Isabelbee

#62191 Sat, 18 Dec 04 07:03 PM

Hello again Mr P! Thank you for mentioning some of my pet hates; as I am sure your tongue was firmly in your cheek, may I add some more?

1. She was like, really angry, like, really really, like, mad - you know?

2. You are SO not right about that

3. The situation was bad, now it has GOTTEN worse

4. I haven't had no dinner

5. ...........and the constant 'You know what I mean?'

6. She was drawRing on the sketch pad - instead of drawing (no middle 'r')

Clive,
Thank you very much for the support, and with regard to your comment about being judgemental, why should you feel guilty? You have every right to exercise your judgement and think whatever you like - after all, don't we all judge everything, every day? You use your judgement in what you wear, what you say, and your friendships to name just a few examples. We may not give voice to those judgements, out of courtesy and respect for the feelings and freedom of others, but we have a right to them nevertheless. Will every generation feel like this? I wonder. You have to care very much to argue and debate and wish to preserve what you perceive to be the best in something, and I get the feeling that this is (slowly) dying. I hope not - and all the interest generated in this simple question would seem to argue to the contrary. Keep monitoring and judging, Clive! Isabel

Isabelbee

Joined on Sat, Nov 27 2004

New Member (14)

Regards

Anonymous

#242233 Mon, 03 Jul 06 05:44 AM

Well well well.. Congratulations for highlighting a point that (pretty much) all native english speakers couldn't give a shite about.

Whilst it is quite obvious that your scholarly argument has come from an in-depth analysis of this here "English" language, I would contend that you have missed the point entirely. So here it is, plain and simple, and posed as a rhetoric to for your consideration...

What is the most important requirement of any "Language"?

The answer is quite simple, and in considering that even Monkeys have developed their own language, I'm sure you (far superior to such animals) have already concluded that:

The point is "communication and understanding"

Aren't such expressions as, "Damn boy, thats whaked", or "you da man!", or "I wanna be like Mike", not a way of effectively communicating an idea. Of course they are. So when you all continue this "pissy" analysis of modern vernacular (which i know you will) please consider this;

Language evolves, and so should you.

Anonymous

Expressions

MrPedantic

#242470 Tue, 04 Jul 06 12:08 AM

Thank you, Anon.

I've no doubt that all participants in the thread are suitably chastened by your remarks.

MrP

MrPedantic

joeviee

#242511 Tue, 04 Jul 06 05:48 AM

Big Smile [:D]

joeviee

Joined on Sat, Apr 30 2005

Full Member (171)

Anonymous

#293033 Tue, 14 Nov 06 04:18 PM

You are correct with what you are saying. I'm assuming that British Coal is a company. Companies are always singular no matter what. So you are correct in saying British Coal is....

Anonymous

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