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itman

#253938 Wed, 09 Aug 06 08:41 AM

Hi,
Would you please tell me, is it true to leave "from whom" and "that" out of the following sentences.
1-A woman from whom you rent a room.
2-Jim was wearing a hat that was too big for him.

itman

Joined on Fri, Feb 25 2005

Iran

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Whom

Inchoateknowledge

#253956 Wed, 09 Aug 06 09:42 AM

Itman wrote:
Hi,
Would you please tell me, is it true to leave "from whom" and "that" out of the following sentences.
1-A woman from whom you rent a room.
2-Jim was wearing a hat that was too big for him.

you cannot ellipt the pronouns here.
The reference is not clear without them contextually.

Inchoateknowledge

Joined on Wed, May 3 2006

Senior Member (2,541)

Beep! Beep! :)

Nouns, Pronouns, Whom

Who versus whom

itman

#254297 Thu, 10 Aug 06 10:18 AM

Hi Inchoateknowledge,
But I read if "that" or "whom" are object we are allowed to omit them.Isn't it?

itman

Whom

itman

#257085 Fri, 18 Aug 06 10:02 AM

Itman wrote:
Hi Inchoateknowledge,
But I read if "that" or "whom" are object we are allowed to omit them.Isn't it?

Would you please answer my question.

itman

Whom

Inchoateknowledge

#257096 Fri, 18 Aug 06 11:41 AM

Hi

You cannot omit syntactical units to the detriment of coherence; only when it is easy to recover the ellipted part from the text can you do so.
Your first and second sentences can not be ellipted.

"1-A woman ... you rent a room." Does it make sense? You can not discover the relationship between the woman and the room you rent from the text. Roger?
"2-Jim was wearing a hat ... was too big for him." Incoherent

I got the letter (that) she wrote me. Here you can drop the relative pronoun.

Inchoateknowledge

Nouns, Pronouns, Relative Pronouns

Nader75

#257171 Fri, 18 Aug 06 05:43 PM

I think :

- A woman who you rent a room

or A woman that you rent a room

or A woman you rent a room

A woman is the object .... you is the subject .... so if you said :

the woman who/that lives in ....

you cant leav out who or that ..so you can't said : the woman lives .. incorrect ... because the woman is the subject

- the hat jim was too big for him ... or ... the hat which/that jim was wearing was too big for him

or .... the hat jim was wearing was too big for him

Nader75

Joined on Sat, Jan 7 2006

Full Member (197)

Nader75

#257172 Fri, 18 Aug 06 05:47 PM

by the way you can't said A woman you must to said The woman

because you specific the woman

Nader75

Inchoateknowledge

#257184 Fri, 18 Aug 06 06:44 PM

"by the way you can't said A woman you must to said The woman"
not necessarily

A woman from whom you rent a house.

She is one of the several women from whom you rent a house.

Inchoateknowledge

Whom

Marius Hancu

#257196 Fri, 18 Aug 06 07:42 PM

Nader75 wrote:
I think :

- A woman who you rent a room

or A woman that you rent a room

or A woman you rent a room

No, you're wrong. They are not equivalent with:

A woman from whom you rent a room.

First of all, none of your versions are correct in any sense. From must be there in order for the sentence to show clearly who is giving whom the room.

If you don't use from, the choice to correct your sentences would be to:

- A woman whom you rent a room to.

or A woman that you rent a room to.

or A woman you rent a room to.

but then, the meaning is totally reversed (she's getting the room and you're giving /renting it to her).