Closed: Chinese / Koreans in groups vs. others...

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Chameleon

#23295 Tue, 24 Feb 04 12:22 AM

Hitchhiker says: This thread has been moved into the debate section

I hope I don't get flamed, but I'm just reporting my observations:

Whenever I have seen large tour groups of Chinese or Koreans on vacation in the United States, their behavior seems incredibly rude to me (rushing the buffet line, pushing people out of the way, blocking the view of older people at shows, jabbering constantly when they should be shutting the hell up, etc.) At the very least, they seem indifferent about even considering the social norms of the country they are visiting. It's like the act of touring to them is the same as watching a movie in the privacy of their own home.

Before I get a huge boot to the head, I'm well aware of the legendary attrocious behavior displayed by American tourists (committing crimes through idiocy / being obnoxious / generally stupid and insensitve to cultural norms) and British tourists ("if I talk louder, THEN maybe these savages will understand my English")...

However, I've yet to hear of a case where a group of American tourists mobbed the local crepe stand in Yokohama (you think I'm kidding...). You'd think Chinese and Korean tour groups have never eaten before based on their behavior when food is present.

Oddly, the Japanese tourists I have observed don't do any of this and, if anything, are more skittish and quiet than anyone else! Then again, I haven't seen too many large tour groups of Japanese tourists. They tend to travel more as families or in small groups of couples than as large mobs. I'd be interested to hear otherwise if anyone has a story.

So what's the deal? Is it just population density and the general indifference for your fellow man (at least on a one-on-one basis)? Or am I missing something? Or am I a flaming idiot?

Chameleon

Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004

Full Member (174)

Elena

#23411 Tue, 24 Feb 04 04:50 PM

Hello Chamaleon

Hmm [^o)]

some generalization maybe?

how many groups have you observed? three?, thirty?, three thousand?

can you conclude some deduction from those observations or maybe you noticed some impolite behaviour in some individuals and you had the temptation of generalising? Smile [:)]

I like a lot the form of the post. The content......you know....:)

Another good teacher came, I think.
********
Editing: and I confused again the word order: I like the form of the post a lot.

Elena

Joined on Thu, Jul 31 2003

Spain

Regular Member (827)

Enjoying my English study

Word order

Chameleon

#23439 Tue, 24 Feb 04 08:58 PM

Yes, I know I'm generalizing. It's only human to do so. But it would be a mistake for me not to question my generalization, ergo the post. If I had made a scientific study of tour groups, I would probably not be so curious if my observations were sound and ask the question. Smile [:)]

Maybe your observation is the key. In cultures where the citizens feel that they are "on top", people tend to disregard other cultural norms as inconsequential. If you don't CARE what people think of you, you're likely to act however you feel and consequently come across as rude. In contrast, Japan has been called "the only country that cares what other people think about them" and so might step a little more carefully. On the other hand, Japanese tourists DO have quite a reputation for taking pictures of their family members in awkward places. The USS Arizona memorial comes to mind...

Chameleon

Regards

Guest

#23452 Wed, 25 Feb 04 12:33 AM

I'm really tempted to recommend that this thread be deleted.
Such posts do nothing to improve tolerance and harmony. They only stir up racist feelings.

Guest

hitchhiker

#23457 Wed, 25 Feb 04 12:51 AM

Re: this thread!

Cultural anecdotes, similarities and differences - I'm a firm believer in being able to take criticism and dish it out - As long as nobody is pointlessly abusive or insulting there's a chance constructive debate can actually help iron out cultural in-tolerance (but perhaps that’s a discussion for greater minds than mine!) Discussion is the name of the game, the more we chat the more we learn. I would suggest we wait for one of our many Chinese/Korean posters to reply?

Bar the 'shut the h*ll up' part – I’m not convinced there's need for deletion here.

Btw: Not all Brits are loud!!

hitchhiker

Joined on Mon, Nov 18 2002

Malta, Europe

Senior Member (3,479)

"OK, so ten out of ten for style, but minus several million for good thinking, yeah?"

Chameleon

#23466 Wed, 25 Feb 04 01:29 AM

If I was unconcerned about generalizations I've been tempted to make, I would never post this here for others to see. I WANT people to prove me wrong! If you believe Chinese tour groups don't act rudely, please let me know. I'm not even demanding solid data: simple examples to the contrary are reassuring. And while you may not agree with the data being presented in the light of a generalization, I think most people would agree that there's something deeply disturbing about a smiling family posing for a photo in front of a tombstone for 2000+ dead marines and sailors. The statement of an observation doesn't make me any more racist than anyone else who reports an event.

Second, I think people often mistake bad or insufficient data for racism. The statement:

"Black people are not as smart as white people."

is not wrong because it's racist. It's wrong because it's _unsupported by data_.

Similiarly, I'm supplying you with the data I've collected based on my (very limited) experience. Please demonstrate that my data is inadequate. If you can't I will seek for an answer somewhere else. I'm not comfortable with the rationalization myself.

No, all Americans don't spraypaint cars when they visit Singapore, no, most British tourists don't yell at foreigners trying to make them understand English. No, all Chinese don't mob the buffet line. But please explain the behavior I'm quoting above or debunk it. Don't censor me because I have the gall to make an uncomfortable statement.

I was hoping I could make this post tongue-in-cheek to start off with so as not to appear blatantly antagonistic. Apparently, this doesn't go over well with some people. While I can offer no quantitative proof that I'm not "culturally intolerant", I think that if you knew me you'd find the notion laughable.

Please, lighten up! This should be fun!

Chameleon

hitchhiker

#23470 Wed, 25 Feb 04 01:47 AM

I for one don't think you sound in any way racist - we do have half a billion people (actually 70,000) pass through here monthly and sometimes it gets so difficult to distinguish the good from the bad - topics are commonly passed up for moderation debate - don't take it personally ever! (Unless you're evviilll)

btw: I thought you did phrase it well; although tongue-in-cheek can sometimes be "lost in translation" - It can definitely spark controversial debate

hitchhiker

Translation

Chameleon

#23482 Wed, 25 Feb 04 02:43 AM

Thanks for understanding! I'm sorry if this last response seemed directed at you. Now that I read it, maybe I should be a little more careful about my verbiage in the future. Smile [:)]

Chameleon

Clive Woodward

#23495 Wed, 25 Feb 04 04:56 AM

Bad behaviour is certainly comparative.
Chameleon, you post focuses on criticising the behaviour of Chinese and Koreans (negatively) and Japanese (positively) who are visiting other countries, but let me ask you this; shouldn't any assessment of the inherent racial behaviour of people of a given nationality be based on a comparison between their behaviour abroad and their behaviour on their own home soil? If so, have you compiled an appreciable amount of data on the latter to support your criticism or are you basing your comparison on something else? If you are basing it on something else, what?

Clive Woodward

Joined on Mon, Nov 17 2003

Veteran Member (239)

Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity Party!!! [<:o)]

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