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Come from vs. come of, with regards to results

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Latest post Thu, Apr 3 2008 7:52 PM by Clive. 16 replies.
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Zig Justice  +  130662 Thu, 25 Aug 05 05:46 PM

First, thanks again to those of you who helped me out with my previous query.

Now, here's another.  I'm looking for some detailed rules for the usage of "come from" as opposed to "come of" when talking about the results of actions, situations, and the like.

For example, a common usage with "of" would be, "Nothing good can come of this."  Now, I know you can't use from there.  Or at least, it feels very wrong.

But what about, "All of the companies current problems came from the decision to make an IPO."  Not the best example, but I'm a bit punchy.  Maybe this isn't correct, but I am pretty darn certain that it is possible to make a correct statement using "come from" with that particular meaning.

So you get the idea.  Any rules or guidelines, anybody?

Again, thanks in advance for your time, help, and monetary donations.  Oh, wait, not the right place to ask for the last.  Sorry.

. o O (Sometimes it can be irritating taking the details for granted if you are actually teaching the language.)
Zig Justice
Joined on Fri, Jul 15 2005
New Member 03
Waïti  +  130688 Thu, 25 Aug 05 07:10 PM

I'm not sure since I'm far from being a good english speaker... but it seems to me the usual expression would be : "nothing good can come OUT OF this"
Many times at work I've heard native english (US) collegues using 'OUT OF' as a substitute to 'FROM'.

I don't know the exact 'rule' -if there is one- that would be involved here to say which one b/w the two is more appropriate. Maybe plain english would recommend using 'from' while american english would tend to go for 'out of' ?
Waïti
Joined on Thu, Aug 25 2005
Regular Member 568
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xsi  +  130690 Thu, 25 Aug 05 07:16 PM
 Zig Justice wrote:

 "Nothing good can come of this." 



I am positive that the correct way of saying that is "Nothing good can come OUT of this."

I don't think I have ever used "come of" before. So you don't have to worry about that. Smile [:)]
xsi
Joined on Wed, Oct 13 2004
New Member 29
CalifJim  +  130776 Fri, 26 Aug 05 05:35 AM
It's the difference between leading to (come from) and developing into (come of).  Here's what I mean:

When X comes from Y, Y leads to X.  This relationship keeps X and Y more separate than the other.

In your IPO example, the problems come from the decision, that is, the decision leads to the problems.  The decision does not become something else; the decision does not evolve or develop into the problems.

When X comes of Y, Y develops into X.  This relationship almost has an X as the result of some sort of change or progress within Y.

In your "nothing good" example, nothing good can come of this (situation), that is, this (situation) can't develop into anything good.  It's not that this (situation) can't be followed by anything good; it's that this (situation) can't evolve or develop into anything good.

In the second case the difference is more subtle.  I wouldn't be surprised to see someone post an example where the two expressions are completely interchangeable.

CJ
CalifJim
Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004
California
Veteran Member 22,415
"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche
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Waïti  +  130867 Fri, 26 Aug 05 11:33 AM

Dear CalifJim,

Thxs for the detailed explanation you provided. Let me take this opportunity to ask a side question you might want to help me with.
There is an expression like "I don't want to come of (?) as an idiot / a culprit / a bad guy..." meaning -I guess- something like "I don't want to be considered as...". Is it the proper expression as spelled above ? Should I be using 'off' instead of 'of' ?

 
Waïti
CalifJim  +  131151 Sat, 27 Aug 05 05:42 AM
You definitely need "off" in that case.  "for you to come off as" is "for you to present yourself as", "for you to make yourself appear to be".

CJ
CalifJim
Eimai_Anglos  +  131363 Sun, 28 Aug 05 12:59 AM
I've never heard the expression "to come off as". Could this be restricted to the USA?
In England we'd say "to come over as.." or (more commonly) "to come across as..." an idiot, a fool, intelligent, a nice person, etc.

In addition, the expression "to come off" has connotations of masturbation.
"She rubbed his penis and he came off in her face".
Eimai_Anglos
Joined on Thu, Jun 23 2005
Regular Member 509
Martin - native English speaker and technical author.
Waïti  +  131756 Mon, 29 Aug 05 12:05 PM

'Mercy buckets' Mister Eimai_Anglos for the word of caution regarding the use of the phrasal verb 'come off...'.

I'll therefore refrain from using it...
Waïti
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Zig Justice  +  135576 Fri, 09 Sep 05 03:44 PM

First off, thanks to all for the replies, and especially CalifJim for quite eloquently giving word to the difference that I understood, but couldn't articulate.

Secondly, wow, more interesting insights into British English.  But with that last, what about the expression, "Come off it"?  Does that have overtones of twitching as well?

. o O (Had no idea it was used as a phrasal verb there in the UK.)

:edit: Why on Earth is that first bit there highlighted in grey??
Zig Justice
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