Comma

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sunu

#190724 Mon, 30 Jan 06 11:05 AM

Hi,

Do we need a comma before "during" in the sentence:

His tenure lasted till 1777, and? during this period, he produced violin concertos, serenades, and divertimentos.

Thanks,

sunu

Joined on Wed, Apr 13 2005

New Delhi, India

New Member (38)

Commas

nona the brit

#190730 Mon, 30 Jan 06 11:19 AM

You do need to shift the comma yes, but don't just add one - move it.

His tenure lasted till 1777 and, during this period, he produced violin concertos, serenades and divertisimentos.

Note also the loss of the final comma - in lists the final object is linked with 'and' and no comma.

Acttually, you could lose the first two commas altogether.

His tenure lasted till 1777 and during this period he produced ....

nona the brit

Joined on Wed, Sep 22 2004

England

Veteran Member (11,502)

The name says it all.

Commas

sunu

#190733 Mon, 30 Jan 06 11:24 AM

Thanks, Nona

sunu

Kajjo

#190778 Mon, 30 Jan 06 01:55 PM

Hi Nona,
I learned that in enumaration of series the last comma is important in English (as opposed to my native language).
http://www.answers.com/topic/comma-punctuation
http://www.drgrammar.org/faqs/#26

Also, I thought that independent sentences should be separated by comma:

"His tenure lasted till 1777" and "During this period he produced..." appear independent, thus
"His tenure lasted till 1777, and during this period he produced..." should be OK.

Puzzled,
Kajjo

Kajjo

Joined on Sun, Dec 18 2005

Full Member (150)

Grammar, Commas

davkett

#190881 Mon, 30 Jan 06 08:09 PM

My opinion differs a bit, Nona.

I believe the comma before and is necessary because the idea that follows is different. Furthermore, the comma after serenades is not wrong, though it's optional.

Thus, I get--

His tenure lasted till 1777, and during this period he produced violin concertos, serenades, [comma optional] and divertimentos.

EDIT: (Sorry Kajjo, I did not see your post before writing mine.)

davkett

Joined on Tue, Jun 7 2005

Pennsylvania, USA

Senior Member (2,788)

"The rose stays fresh in its name..." -Bernard of Morlay

Commas

sunu

#191322 Wed, 01 Feb 06 06:45 AM

Yes, the Oxford (serial) comma is optional.

We learnt that if the dependent clause comes at the end of the sentence then no comma is used:

He produced violin concertos, serenades, and divertimentos during this wonderful period.

But, if the dependent clause comes before the independent clause then a comma is required. Thus:

During this wonderful period, he produced violin concertos, serenades, and divertimentos .

So, I presume, in a sentence with two independent clauses the puncuation would be:

His tenure lasted till 1777, and he produced violin concertos, serenades, and divertimentos during this wonderful period.

But, if we move "during this wonderful period" within the sentence, will the punctuation be:

His tenure lasted till 1777, and during this wonderful period, he produced violin concertos, serenades, and divertimentos.

OR:

His tenure lasted till 1777, and, during this wonderful period, he produced violin concertos, serenades, and divertimentos.

Thanks,

sunu

Resume, Clauses, Commas, Punctuation

The17pointscale

#191341 Wed, 01 Feb 06 08:21 AM

Sunu,

I agree with your last post. However, I believe that some style guides suggest that when a short dependent clause precludes an independent clause it may be best to leave out the comma. Personally, I would keep the comma that follows 'period,' but perhaps it is a matter of judgment...?

-Andrew

The17pointscale

Joined on Thu, Jan 26 2006

Seattle

Junior Member (84)

Clauses, Commas

sunu

#191345 Wed, 01 Feb 06 08:41 AM

Thanks, Andrew.

But, if we use the comma after "period", should we also use one before "during"? Or do we just treat "and during this wonderful period" as some form of an elongated coordinating conjunction instead of treating "during this wonderful period" as a dependent clause?

sunu

Clauses, Commas

The17pointscale

#191354 Wed, 01 Feb 06 09:19 AM

back with your original question, eh? Smile [:)]

i suggest waiting for a more informed opinion - - i'm just a novice editor, and i'm not entirely certain what label i would give the phrase. from a thematic standpoint i would consider whether 'during this wonderful period' is merely an offhand, less relevant sentence detail (and therefore beset by commas) or a more critical component. stylistically, the additional comma clutters the sentence more but also provides the reader with more instruction.

sorry for the lack of an answer!
-andrew

The17pointscale

Commas

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