Comma or no comma and why?

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Greatmilinko8451

#438155 Sat, 03 Nov 07 03:06 AM

Both clowns stand[,] facing the door.

Is facing a preposition?

Greatmilinko8451

Joined on Sat, Oct 27 2007

New Member (17)

Prepositions, Commas

Clive

#438164 Sat, 03 Nov 07 03:45 AM

Hi,

Both clowns stand[,] facing the door.

Is facing a preposition? No. It's a present participle.

The comma is optional. With it, the main meaning, the main idea, is that the clowns are standing, eg not sitting.

Without the comma, the phrase becomes part of the main idea, ie that the clowns are standing and turned in a certain direction.

So, it depends on the main idea that you want to communicate to the reader.

Best wishes, Clive

Clive

Joined on Thu, Oct 28 2004

Canada

Veteran Member (23,116)

El tango argentino es un pensamiento triste que se puede bailar (The tango argentino is a sad thought which can be danced) Enrique Santos Discépolo

Prepositions, Commas

CalifJim

#438167 Sat, 03 Nov 07 03:51 AM

No comma.

facing the door acts as an adverb of manner. It tells how the clowns stand. You wouldn't use a comma for any other adverb.

The clowns stood straight.
The clowns stood quietly.
The clowns stood facing the door.

facing is a participle. It is the present participle of the verb face. The clowns were facing the door. Note the similarity between verbs and prepositions: They both take objects.

But, as you say, it acts like a preposition -- although it is not a typical preposition.

They stood near the door.
They stood beside the door.
They stood facing the door.

There are other present participles which are used as prepositions:

Everyone is ready, including me.
I am writing to you regarding the position you advertised.
Harry said all he wanted to say concerning the matter.

So, in summary, I would say that facing the door is an adverbial participial phrase in your sample sentence.

CJ

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (18,304)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Verbs, Prepositions, Adverbs, Commas, Sample

Clive

#438186 Sat, 03 Nov 07 05:04 AM

Hi CJ,

Both clowns stand facing the door.
It certainly seems adverbial without the comma.

However, with the comma it seems to me that it separates the phrase from the verb enough that it could also be interpreted as adjectival, describing the clowns.

Rather like the more awkward word order of Facing the door, both clowns stand or even Both clowns facing the door stand.

Compare The man sitting at the table spoke.

Clive

Verbs, Word Order, Commas

CalifJim

#438363 Sat, 03 Nov 07 04:51 PM

True. But with a comma it seems to me to be a stage instruction.

(At this point in the action) both clowns stand (up), facing the door.

And I didn't think the poster was interested in this interpretation -- but then again, who knows?

At any rate, for better or worse, I only discussed one interpretation. Given the number of words I expended on that alone, I thought the charitable line of action was to stop there rather than to yammer on! Smile [:)]

Fortunately, you got into the other way of looking at it, and together we presented a rather complete answer for the poster. I think we did pretty well, all in all! Smile [:)]

CalifJim

Numbers, Commas