Conditional

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MrPedantic  #85240  Thu, 31 Mar 05 01:28 AM
Hello Jack

If so, why can't I use this mixed conditional?
1. If I am still living round here, I would have bought a guard dog too.

This has a very strange meaning, as it stands. It's an inferential if-statement, rather than a conditional: the main clause draws a conclusion from the if-clause.

It requires a context like this:

MrP has forgotten where he lives.
He wanders into Jack's neighbourhood.
It seems familiar. He knows he's lived there before. Does he still live there?
Then he notices that in Jack's neighbourhood, everyone walks along with a guard dog.
MrP looks down. He has no guard dog.
He utters the immortal words:

'If I am still living round here, I would have bought a guard dog too. But I don't have a guard dog. So I'm not still living here.'

(Though it would be more idiomatic to say: 'if I still live round here'.)

But if (as you suggest) you match an 'imaginary' verb with 'would have', you get:

'If I were still living round here/If I still lived round here, I would have bought a guard dog too.'

Which is much more usual.

2.
But this is correct right?
'If I don't live round here, (then that means that) I wouldn't have done that'. It has a slightly amnesiac quality.


Again, it's inferential, rather than conditional: 'If I don't live round here, I wouldn't have done that. (But I did do that, so I must live round here.)'

You can switch the clauses, which shows it's not a true conditional:

'If I wouldn't have done that, [it must mean] I don't live round here.'

Mixing conditionals has odd results.

MrP
  
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MrPedantic  #85241  Thu, 31 Mar 05 01:32 AM
Hello Hela

For question #2, this is one possibility:

"When we lived in the same apartment last year, my car broke down almost every week. When my car was working, I was able to drive you to the station in the morning. When it wasn't, you had to take a bus".

MrP
  
MrPedantic  #85242  Thu, 31 Mar 05 01:33 AM
I like your analysis of Hela's question 1, Paco!

MrP
  
jack112  #85299  Thu, 31 Mar 05 07:44 AM
"When we lived in the same appartment last year, my car broke down almost every week. If my car WAS (or HAD BEEN ?) working, I could drive (or COULD HAVE DRIVEN ?) you to the station in the morning. If not, you had to take a bus".


Yes, I'm confused like Hela too. I don't get it. When I'm telling a story, what kind of conditional do I need to use? How do I know? Second, third, first, and so forth?

So I'm telling a story, how do I know which conditional to use? What do they mean? Can you give me some examples of when to use what?

1. When we lived in the same appartment last year, my car broke down almost every week. If my car was working, I could drive her to the station in the morning. If it was not possible, she had to take a bus.

2. When we lived in the same appartment last year, my car broke down almost every week. If my car had been working, I could have driven her to the station in the morning. If it hadn't been possible, she had taken the bus.

Thanks.
  
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Hela  #85328  Thu, 31 Mar 05 09:32 AM
Thanks Paco, but I have suddenly realized that I misunderstood Mr P's words. I thought that he said that the sentence meant that the speaker IS STILL LIVING there and not WAS LIVING there THEN. [what an awful sentence this is, but I don't know how to improve it Huh? [:^)] ]

My apologies to Mr P, I must have spent too much time on the conditional yesterday!Embarrassed [:$]

I'm eager to read the answer to Jack112's post though.

All the best,
Hela

  
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paco2004  #85330  Thu, 31 Mar 05 09:40 AM
Hello Jack

I don't think the question you are raising is related to the usage of if-conditionals. It is rather a problem how to describe a past event that happened intermittently. Do you apply a conditional construction to such a past event in your language? In the Japanese language we use a construct such as "Usually Y. But when X happened, Z" or "When X didn't happen, Y. And/But when X happened, Z". I believe this way of description would be common to almost all the languages.

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jack112  #85337  Thu, 31 Mar 05 10:08 AM
I don't think the question you are raising is related to the usage of if-conditionals. It is rather a problem how to describe a past event that happened intermittently. Do you apply a conditional construction to such a past event in your language? In the Japanese language we use a construct such as "Usually Y. But when X happened, Z" or "When X didn't happen, Y. And/But when X happened, Z". I believe this way of description would be common to almost all the languages.


So what I'm telling stories in the past, it doesn't matter what type of conditional I use? Why is that? Or do I just use type 2 conditional? I don't understand how to use conditionals when I'm telling stories.

Do you guys have some links? Or something I can read?

Thanks.
  
paco2004  #85340  Thu, 31 Mar 05 10:24 AM
Hello Jack again

I would go this way:

Usually I drove her to the station in the morning. But when the car broke down, she had to take a bus.

I don't think you have to use any conditional.


paco
  
jack112  #85449  Thu, 31 Mar 05 06:21 PM
I don't think you have to use any conditional.


Let's say I do need to use it. What would I use and why? Can you give me some exmaples too?

Thanks.
  
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