Conditional

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jack112  #82634  Mon, 21 Mar 05 02:36 AM
Are these correct? If not, why? What do they mean?

1. If that were the case, I would make sure my data was backed up
2. If that were the case, I would make sure my data is backed up

Thanks.
  
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paco2004  #82678  Mon, 21 Mar 05 09:46 AM
Hello Jack

I think either is OK, but I feel native speakers will choose rather . It seems not because of logical reasons. It seems rather because they feel odd with a sentence where a sudden tense change takes place ( MrP's answer ). They would take 'would' as a past tense verb and so to them sounds more natural.

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MrPedantic  #82724  Mon, 21 Mar 05 02:41 PM
I would choose 'was' – the subjunctive + conditional (type 2) structure has such a strong sense of unreality, that 'is' would jar; whereas 'was' is happily unreal.

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jack112  #82887  Tue, 22 Mar 05 04:19 AM
I would choose 'was' – the subjunctive + conditional (type 2) structure has such a strong sense of unreality, that 'is' would jar; whereas 'was' is happily unreal.


So you are saying 'was' is not past tense? It is a conditional?

What about these? Should I use 'was' or 'is' ?
1. If that were the case, I would talk to him about what is wrong. (I have 'is' here? Does that mean present tense? What is wrong right now?)
2. If that were the case, I would talk to him about what was wrong. (I have 'was' here. Does that mean past tense? what was wrong before?)

If #1 and #2 ideas are like that, how come these ones are not like that? Or it doesn't work for #3 and #4?
3. If that were the case, I would make sure my data is backed up. (Does this mean that I should have my data backed up right now?)
4. If that were the case, I would make sure my data was backed up. (Does this mean that I should have my data backed up before?)

I hope you see what I'm trying to say. If you don't, let me know.

Thanks.
  
MrPedantic  #83047  Tue, 22 Mar 05 11:29 PM
Hello Jack

Pair A: #1 and #2

This is a slightly different case, as the possibility of ambiguity is quite strong. The hypothesis could relate either to an existing fact ('it is still wrong') or a past fact ('it used to be wrong'). So here, it would be natural to say 'is' (#1) if you wanted to make it clear that what was wrong was still wrong.

Nonetheless, there is still a strong pull towards the #2 form, because the tense in the subordinate clause tends to accord with the tenses in preceding clauses. If I heard #2, I would not assume that what was wrong was no longer wrong.

So if you heard #2, it could mean the same as #1!

Pair B: #3 and #4

Whereas Pair A relates to a hypothetical statement about a real situation ('if that were the case' marks the hypothesis; but 'what is/was wrong' is real), pair B relates to a simple hypothesis: 'if that were true, I would do this'.

In this case, there is no ambiguity, and so the tense in the subordinate clause accords with the preceding tenses: 'was' is used to denote unreality.

The 'backed up before' interpretation of #4 would be expressed like this:

'If that were the case, I would make sure my data had been backed up.'

That said, many people would no doubt use the #3 form.

MrP
  
jack112  #83060  Wed, 23 Mar 05 12:12 AM
That said, many people would no doubt use the #3 form.

So you are saying people would use this as well? For 'back up' to be present?

But technically there is no difference in meaning between #3 and #4?


Thanks.
  
MrPedantic  #83065  Wed, 23 Mar 05 12:32 AM
1. If that were the case, I'd make sure my data had been backed up. (I'd check I did a backup yesterday.)

2. If that were the case, I'd make sure my data was backed up. (I'd do a backup at some hypothetical time.)

3. If that's the case, I'd make sure my data was backed up. (I advise you to back up your data now.)

4. If that's the case, I'd make sure the data's backed up. (I advise you to back up your data now, slightly more urgently.)

If we say:

5. If that were the case, I'd make sure my data is backed up now –

we start with a type 2 conditional (i.e. hypothesis), and suddenly shift to the real 'now' ('is backed up').

This is a hybrid between #2 and #4. In spoken English, people will sometimes change their minds about the hypotheticality of a situation in mid sentence. So a sentence will start out hypothetical, and end with a reference to a real situation.

This often happens in structures that use 'would', because 'would' can also be used to give advice (as in #3 and #4).

So yes, someone might use the #5 form, when they simply meant #2! Or they might start with #2, and realize halfway that they really wanted to use a #4.

MrP
  
jack112  #83112  Wed, 23 Mar 05 03:59 AM
Thanks MrPedantic, you have cleared things up very well.Smile [:)]
  
jack112  #83205  Wed, 23 Mar 05 12:05 PM
Are these correct? What do they mean?
1. If I were older that would make me an adult, a very responsible adult who drinks carefully.

2. If I were older that would make me an adult, a very responsible adult who drank carefully.

Thanks.
  
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