Conditional

Share on Facebook

jack112

#360901 Sun, 06 May 07 01:07 AM

Scenario: I have just sold my motorcycle and my friend asks me why I didn't sell it in the summer. Right now it is spring time and summer hasn't come yet.

And I reply back with:

1. I would have lost a lot more money if I had sold it in the summer. (Is this incorrect? Summer hasn't come yet, so is it possible to use the 3rd conditional (past conditional ?)

2. I would lose a lot more money if I sold it in the summer. (But is this 2nd conditional (unreal conditional) correct? This may imply that I still have the bike when I don't)

So which one should I use or what would you say??

jack112

Joined on Thu, Jul 22 2004

Regular Member (715)

Conditionals

Grammar Geek

#360917 Sun, 06 May 07 02:30 AM

I agree with you - 2 makes it sound like you still have the bike.

1 is correct. I understand "if I had sold it in the summer" to mean "if I had WAITED to sell it in the summer."

Grammar Geek

Joined on Tue, Jan 10 2006

Pennsylvania, USA

Veteran Member (16,003)

Barbara, who answers in American English.

Yankee

#360924 Sun, 06 May 07 03:02 AM

Hi Jack

I agree with GG. Only your first conditional sentence is correct. It is a so-called "type 3 conditional". Type 3 conditionals talk about impossible situations.

The basic condition in your sentence is "sell motorcycle" and, as you said, that has already happened. The sale is already in the past and you cannot change that. It is now impossible to sell your motorcycle at any other time.

Yankee

Joined on Sat, Apr 15 2006

Connecticut, USA

Senior Member (4,272)

Amy "You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus." - Mark Twain

Conditionals

Yankee

#360928 Sun, 06 May 07 03:21 AM

Hi again

I neglected to mention your other sentence. Yes, your second sentence is a 2nd conditional.
Instead of thinking of this kind of conditional sentence as "unreal", it might be less confusing for you to think of it as being "theoretical".

Yankee

Conditionals

jack112

#361325 Mon, 07 May 07 02:15 AM

Grammar Geek wrote:
1 is correct. I understand "if I had sold it in the summer" to mean "if I had WAITED to sell it in the summer."

1. I would have lost a lot more money if I had sold it in the summer.

Can you explain why #1 is correct? I just sold the bike and it is spring time right now, summer hasn't come!!! How can I use a past conditional when summer hasn't gone by yet? If I use the past conditional (#1), doesn't it imply that I'm talking about last summer not this coming summer?

Maybe I should've written the scenario this way:
I have just sold my motorcycle and my friend asks me why I didn't wait until summer to sell it. Right now it is spring time and summer hasn't come yet.

Hope that clears things up, so is #1 sitll correct? How so?? I just don't see how you can use a past conditional when summer hasn't gone by yet.

jack112

Grammar, Conditionals

Yankee

#361354 Mon, 07 May 07 04:15 AM

Hi Jack

Because you sold your motorcycle in the past, it is now absolutely impossible to sell it now or in the future. In a type 3 conditional the condition that would need to be fulfilled cannot possibly be fulfilled because it has already happened in the past. The key to your sentence is the fact that selling the motorcycle in the future (or any time other than when it was actually sold) cannot possibly happen. The motorcycle was sold in the past. Changing the date of the sale is impossible.

Look at the following scenario:

Today is May 6, 2007
I sold my motorcycle to Jack on May 2nd. Jack paid $5000.
Today Fred says: "Hey, have you sold your motorcycle yet? I want to buy it. I'll give you $6000 for it. I'll give you the money tomorrow."

However, it is now impossible for you to sell your motorcycle to Jack. You have already sold it.
Now you can say:
If I hadn't sold my motorcycle to Jack, I could have sold it to Fred for $1000 more.
-OR-
If I had waited a few days longer to sell my motorcycle, Fred would have bought it for $1000 more. (It is impossible to wait longer than you actually waited to sell your motorcycle.)

The sentences above are no different from your sentence. They are 3rd conditionals.

Yankee

Dates, Conditionals

CalifJim

#361399 Mon, 07 May 07 09:28 AM

How can I use a past conditional when summer hasn't gone by yet?

Don't take the name past conditional too seriously. All of these patterns use the past form of verbs, but that does not mean that past time in involved. The past tense form is used to suggest remoteness -- remoteness in time makes it truly in past time -- but remoteness of possibility or remoteness from reality is another kind of remoteness -- and this can be about a remoteness of possibility or remoteness from reality at any time. It doesn't have to be past time.

If I helped you tomorrow, would you help me next week?

helped is a past form, but it's not in past time. The idea of my helping you is "remote" ( -ed) not because it is in the past but because it is an envisioned act, not an actual one.

If I had helped you tomorrow (or If I had sold it next summer) does seem a little strange, as you say, but it is possible.

If I had helped you tomorrow (instead of today), I would not have missed all the fun at today's party.

These are usually understood as having a missing verb (as in GG's idea of "waiting to sell" in your motorcycle example).

If I had decided to help you tomorrow (instead of today), I would not have ...

Personally, I tend to put in the missing verb to avoid confusion.

CJ

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (17,568)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Verbs, Tenses, Past tenses, Conditionals