Confused with verbs

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Marius Hancu  #471276  Thu, 31 Jan 08 11:37 PM
 Goodman wrote:

Can i say: It is essential that we be informed of your plans. Yes!


Help him understand - Ok
It is essential that we should be informed of your plans.
We insist that he must be on time

There are those who use modal in subjunctive which in my opinion is improper but some considered it acceptable. I wouldn't not recommend it.

You may want to read (if  you find it) the Grammar ... by G. Curme, the best treatment of subjunctive I know (published in the 30s, but re-issued). "Should be" is a legal subjunctive, weaker than "be," in his opinion.
  
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Goodman  #471277  Thu, 31 Jan 08 11:38 PM
 Avangi wrote:

 Goodman wrote:
There are those who use modal in subjunctive which in my opinion is improper but some considered it acceptable. I wouldn't not ? recommend it.

Hi Goodman, 

Could you please give an example?

   - A.

Avangi,

I hope I am not another *** you are afterBig Smile [:D] This is what I mennt in my previous thread.

We might hear people say, for instance, "I insist that he should go at once."  

Instead of "I insist that he go at once"?  What I neglected to mention was the many moods in subjunctive, However since the question was self-explanatory, I didn’t bother with it.  The “those” I mentioned refers to the folks who had posted the se threads.  In my opinion, the "should" needs to be taken out. Thaat all!

 

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If I insist, that he should spend more time with me, he gets irritated.He doesn't take initiative in anything, not even sex.I really have no idea why he ...
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Goodman  #471283  Fri, 01 Feb 08 12:09 AM
 Marius Hancu wrote:
 Goodman wrote:

Can i say: It is essential that we be informed of your plans. Yes!


Help him understand - Ok
It is essential that we should be informed of your plans.
We insist that he must be on time

There are those who use modal in subjunctive which in my opinion is improper but some considered it acceptable. I wouldn't not recommend it.

You may want to read (if  you find it) the Grammar ... by G. Curme, the best treatment of subjunctive I know (published in the 30s, but re-issued). "Should be" is a legal subjunctive, weaker than "be," in his opinion.

Well there goes nothing! Tongue Tied [:S]I had this debate many time over the same damned topic previously. You know what ! I was trying to confirm my own knowledge, I did some searching and 20 minutes later, the answers were 50/50 or inconclusive, but amazingly I accidentally came across this:

 

Moderator MrPedantic Join Date: Feb 2005

Country: England

Location: SE England

First Language: British English

Posts: 1,937

Hello Aurimas

If you leave out the "should" in those sentences, the meaning won't be changed; but in British English, you'll give a greater impression of formality.

For instance, if you were writing a strong letter of complaint about the ticket collector at your local station, you might use the subjunctive version:

1. He is rude, inconsiderate, and thoroughly obnoxious. I demand that he be sacked immediately.

While in conversation or less formal contexts, you would be more likely to use the "should" version:

2. I insisted that he should contact them immediately.

 

Incidentally, I copied and pasted a couple if interesting threads on this topic:

 

http://alt-usage-english.org/subjunctive_supplement.html

http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/22159-try-tried.html

  
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