Contractions again (I am sorry)

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CalifJim  #376125  Thu, 07 Jun 07 06:46 AM
I agree that it's useless to add apostrophe-s to indicate is when the word ends in a sibilant (i.e., would take -es to form a plural).  In these cases the apostrophe-s looks very strange, and nothing is gained where pronunciation is concerned.  But in all other cases (regardless of whether they end in a voiced or unvoiced sound), the apostrophe-s for is is fine.  (Go figure!)

*My watch's slow.
My watch is slow.
Dinner's ready.
Mike's here.


My observation is that learners find these nearly impossible to incorporate in their own conversations.  Any comments on that?

CJ
  
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Kooyeen  #376204  Thu, 07 Jun 07 01:26 PM
Thank you all for your comments, guys.

 CalifJim wrote:
My observation is that learners find these nearly impossible to incorporate in their own conversations.  Any comments on that?


My opinion is that learners use contractions if they are used to them, for example because they hear them often. So maybe I wouldn't use an "s" after a voiceless sound because I've never noticed one (I probably heard some, but I don't remember hearing them). But after all I'm not listening very much. I'll try to listen to some English as often as I can, from now on.

Yesterday, for example, I heard "did" contracted to 'd. I'd never noticed that feature, but I think it is only possible in some cases, like:
How'd you do that? (How joo)
What'd your girlfriend do? (What jur)
Why'd your mother go there? (Why jur)


Notice there is always a "you" or "your" after "did", and there are no personal pronouns. So you can't contract "did" in "She did a good job" or "I think Mike did a great thing".
But there's a thing I'm not sure of:
How'd you do that? = How did you do that -- But it can't also mean "How would you do that?", right?

Smile [:)]

  
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CalifJim  #376341  Thu, 07 Jun 07 06:23 PM
did contracts to 'd informally after sentence-initial question words, especially those that end in a vowel sound.  you need not follow.

How'd he do that?
Why'd she want it?
Where'd they stay?


I'm not aware of cases where, in a question-word + 'd contraction, the 'd means would, but one never knows!   I always put an extra syllable in there using a schwa if I mean wouldHowuhdee do that?   Compare:  Howdee do that?

CJ

  
Maple  #376350  Thu, 07 Jun 07 06:48 PM

 

 CalifJim wrote:
My observation is that learners find these nearly impossible to incorporate in their own conversations.  Any comments on that?

It is possible for us to incorporate contractions in our conversations, say, at an English corner, though not that common.  I actually often use the simple ones of them-the ones which can be easily found in written form. But I don't know if they sound naturally. My classmates can get whatever I say because of the familiarity. But maybe it's a disaster to stranger addressees. LOL

I guess the more difficult part of contraction for us is the listening. When you native speakers' speech speed is normal, some sounds are omitted, some are swallowed and some are combined, the sentences are a mess to my ears. Tongue Tied [:S]

Maple

  
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CalifJim  #376380  Thu, 07 Jun 07 09:05 PM
some sounds are omitted, some are swallowed and some are combined, the sentences are a mess to my ears.
This sounds familiar!  It has happened to me when I have tried to learn another language.  Only continued contact with the new language seemed to help.  I suspect it's the same for everyone.

Thanks for your comment.

Smile [:)]


  
Yankee  #376400  Thu, 07 Jun 07 10:05 PM

The same thing happened to me in Germany.  A lot of what I heard "on the street" was not the same as what I'd heard in any German class I'd ever taken.  For example, it took me about 6 months to figure out one utterance that I heard on a fairly regular basis.  It sounded to me as though people were sort of saying the name "Norbert" (the Rs sounded sort of British).  Whenever I later asked my German friends what "Norbert" meant, they'd just shrug their shoulders and tell me they had no idea.  Of course, they had no idea what I was talking about because I wasn't immitating the pronunciation quite right and I kept asking about it long after the fact (i.e. out of context).
It turned out to be a contraction of "Guten abend" (Good evening). Surprise [:O] Smile [:)]

  
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Kooyeen  #376414  Thu, 07 Jun 07 10:48 PM
 Maple wrote:
I guess the more difficult part of contraction for us is the listening. When you native speakers' speech speed is normal, some sounds are omitted, some are swallowed and some are combined, the sentences are a mess to my ears. Tongue Tied [:S]


I used to think the same. I always said: "They don't say that, they don't say what they are supposed to say. They leave out sounds, consonants, it seems they speak without even moving thier tongues correctly. I'll never understand a single word, because they speak in an odd way."

Then I found out the truth. They don't speak in an odd way, they speak correctly and naturally. If I don't understand, then I don't know English. Because if I knew it, you would understand, wouldn't I? So I started to learn real American English. Learning how to pronounce words was a shock. I mean, "betty" with a "d" sound? That's totally nonsense! And where is the "t" in "not"? And so on. Then I started to understand and I thought, "Of course I didn't understand, I actually didn't know English at all".

So the problem is that we (ESL learners) are often taught bad English, especially pronounciation. I think we should be taught correct pronunciation before any other thing, and practice listening and spoken English more than any other form of English.
Here in Italy, teachers usually don't put any emphasis on pronunciation, and not much on listening, since they get disappointing results.
I'd like to hear what happens in other countries, but I think I already know the answer. Few teachers teach good English, and most of them are in northern European countries. Smile [:)]
  
Maple  #376581  Fri, 08 Jun 07 10:54 AM

 CalifJim wrote:
...Only continued contact with the new language seemed to help. ...  

Yeah, so we have to do listening and speaking exercises as much as possible. 

 Yankee wrote:

......

It turned out to be a contraction of "Guten abend" (Good evening).  

That's interesting Big Smile [:D]

 Kooyeen wrote:
   ...Here in Italy, teachers usually don't put any emphasis on pronunciation, and not much on listening, since they get disappointing results.
I'd like to hear what happens in other countries, but I think I already know the answer. .... 

Yes, I guess you’ve known the answer already. Things here in China are the same, if not much worse. The education we receive has been exam-oriented, due to the fierce social competition.Full Moon [moon]

  
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