correct sentences 24/11

Cool Breeze wrote:

Hi all There are no grammatical restrictions on the causal use of since in a sentence which is composed of a main clause followed by a subordinate clause. In other words, if it  is correct English to say I feel better because I moved house, it is also correct to use since instead of because. A temporal since would require a change of tense: I have felt better since I moved house. Cheers CB

OR

I have been feeling better since I moved house.

Can it have anything to do with the verb "feel" or "visit"? Can certain verbs be used that way?

- I feel better since I moved house.  

- She no longer visits since she got married.

['since' as a conjuntion of time] 

Hello everyone,

I'm glad to see that even native speakers have different interpretations of the conjunction "since" in the above sentences. My problem is that grammar rules advise not to use the present tense with the conjunction of time "since" and this is the reason of my confusion. But could it be that the present simple or progressive are possible only with state verbs --though "visit" is not a state verb ?  

What would you say:

1) She looks quite different since her illness.

  (possible? = time clause ?)

2) He is shooting the most expensive film since Star Wars.

3) My mother looks younger since she dyed her hair.

(“since” here introduces a time clause or a reason clause ?)

4) He looks much younger since he shaved off his beard.  (could this be a time clause ?)

Thank you for your help.

Hela  

Hi Hela

First of all, the most common verb tense to use with since (temporal) is the present perfect (or present perfect continuous). This is a well-known rule and also works most of the time.   However, ruling out all other verb tenses completely would be a mistake.

The four sentences you've now added are also fine. 

As I see it, in 1) you are describing a perceived permanent change in state (appearance) -- a fact as it is peceived now.  Using 'since' simply gives you a reference point for the time when this permanent change in state took place.  Sentences 3 and 4 are similar.


There are some common usages of 'since' where the present perfect would not be used:
My kids think that the cell phone is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Since when do you have the right to tell me what to do?


In your sentence 'She no longer visits since she got married', you would lose some of the meaning if you used the present perfect (i.e. the sense of a regular, repeated past activity -- a past habit -- would be lost):

She hasn't visited since she got married. --> This sentence simply states that there has not been one visit since her marriage.  There is no indication of a change in habitual activity and a 'new habitual state'.

Again, I agree that the present perfect and the present perfect continuous are the most frequent partners with the temporal 'since', but exceptions do exist and I think you've done a good job sensing where those exceptions might come into play.

Just a side note that has nothing to do with tenses: in American English "to move houses" isn't idiomatic.

... since I moved.

... since I moved into my new house.

... since I moved out of that house.

... since I moved my mobile home to a new lot.