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Latest post Tue, Nov 3 2009 3:45 AM by CalifJim. 4 replies.
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dokterjokkebrok  +  957943 Sat, 31 Oct 09 10:10 AM
Hi,

A question for you guys, as I was unable to retrieve the answer to this from the threads.  



Do we pronounce a dark L or a light L in:

e.g.     cool Indian  

In other words, does the second word, which starts with a vowel, influence the dark L that is normally pronounced in the word 'cool' if pronounced seperately. 


Thank you for you replies.


 

Joined on Sun, Jun 21 2009
The Netherlands
Full Member 225
"Experience is the name we all give to our mistakes." Oscar Wilde
raindoctor  +  958163 Sat, 31 Oct 09 03:20 PM
Tom Zurinskas of truespel answered this kind of question on some earlier thread. Here, you hear a vocalic l followed by l. This is an instance of sonorant gemination. "sell enough" is described here.
Joined on Sun, Apr 26 2009
Junior Member 67
Kooyeen  +  959094 Sun, 01 Nov 09 06:02 PM
Hi,

with questions like this, you are getting into trouble, lol.

I remember asking the same kind of question in the past. I've never gotten a clear answer, because this can get very complicated, as you can see from raindoctor's answer.


It depends on what you want to know and why. If you just need some tips to improve your spoken English then you don't need to know any complicated stuff.


What I can tell you, as a non-native speaker, is that every feature of a spoken language can vary. Take the dark-L for example: ok, it's dark, but how dark? It's impossible to tell how dark an L should be, because it varies from accent to accent, depending on what comes before or after the L, and sometimes it might not even be an L anymore in some accents.

Spoken English is a mess.


This is how I think I'd currently say the L, for example:

#1 COOL = Very dark L, tip of my tongue doesn't touch the roof of my mouth

#2 LINE = Normal initial L, which is dark anyway, but less dark than #1

#3 COOL INDIAN = Very dark L, but my tongue touches the roof

#4 CALIFORNIA = It varies depending on how fast I try to say it. The slower, the darker.


I don't think it's worth finding a pattern to follow though. I would expect countless personal and dialectal variations.

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dokterjokkebrok  +  959123 Sun, 01 Nov 09 06:40 PM
Hi,

Thank you both. I asked this because I thought the aswer to it would be pretty straightforward. But, as it turns out, it is slightly more complicated. Good information though.  


Why I want to know this? Partly because I find it interesting, but in the past, I also found it to be very helpful for my accent – including the complicated stuff. Besides, it's also helpful to know about the underlying theory for the classes I have to teach: I'm a student teacher of English, and, occasionally, if one of my pupils has difficulty pronouncing a sound, it's very convenient to know about this. I've acquired a basic/intermediate knowledge on the subject, but now I'm kind of stuck. Perhaps I'll buy some books on advanced phonetics. 

Thanks for your advice.

 

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