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Yankee  +  962846 Thu, 05 Nov 09 10:52 PM
Hi Anon


Here's my two cents:


First of all, the phrase "depending on" can function as the subject of a sentence. For example:


(1) Depending on him for help would be a mistake.


The structure of the sentence above is basically exactly the same as your daughter's sentence, but "depending on" is not used the way your daughter wants to use it in her sentence. Your daughter's sentence tends to sound as though "depending" is used as the subject of the sentence, and I'd say that's why it sounds so awkward. She needs an adjective, but the structure of her sentence suggests that it's being used as a noun -- the way it's used in my sentence. She would be better off rewording the sentence (as you've already suggested to her). For example:


- The shape of the cake would also depend on the occasion.

OR possibly this:

- Also dependant on the occasion would be the shape of the cake.


That's my take on you homework dilemma.

Joined on Sat, Apr 15 2006
Connecticut, USA
Veteran Member 6,491
Amy "You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus." - Mark Twain
Avangi  +  962854 Thu, 05 Nov 09 11:11 PM
<< Also depending on the occasion would be the shape of the cake. >>


I've never considered the sentence wrong.  I'm comfortable with atypical sentences.

But I was embarrassed by the poster's question about the subject.

Amy opened my eyes on that.  It was right under my nose. 

The gerund "depending" is a noun, and a noun phrase makes a perfect subject. 

"Making waves would be fun!"

Dim's being bothered by "the noun phrase" tickled me but didn't wake me up.


Also losing on the market today was General Motors.

Also living in the new residences would be the homeless.


I don't see a problem. 

Joined on Mon, Nov 19 2007
Veteran Member 8,168
". . . le plaisir delicieux et toujours nouveau d'une occupation inutile." - Henri de Regnier
Avangi  +  962908 Fri, 06 Nov 09 12:27 AM
Well, now I'm embarrassed again.


Also depending/dependent upon the weather would be the farmers and the construction workers.


In the matter of the subject of the sentence, I suppose all kinds of phrases can be "noun phrases" and serve as subject   -   infinitive, participial, etc., but at some point this idea seems to break down, and I want to turn it around.

Yankee  +  962933 Fri, 06 Nov 09 01:13 AM
Hi Avangi

Avangi
“Also depending/dependent upon the weather would be the farmers and the construction workers.”
I think it's worth mentioning that in your sentence, I don't see a phrase that means "contingent on".


In addition, that sentence can be reworded this way:

- The farmers and the construction workers would also be depending upon the weather.

The meaning of "depend" is "rely".


Or do you think the intended meaning of that sentence is this:

- The farmers and the construction workers would also be contingent on the weather.

(Without any context to justify or explain it, that sentence doesn't make much sense to me.)


The meaning that our original poster's daughter wanted to convey was basically "contingent on".


This is a common format: (1)subject + (2)BE + (3)predicate adjective:


- The weather is cool. 

(1)the weather

(2)is

(3)cool


A more poetic version of that sentence would be:


- Cool is the weather.


What is the word "cool" in that last sentence? Noun or adjective? What's the subject?


Avangi
<< Also depending on the occasion would be the shape of the cake. >>
For me, the subject of that sentence has to be "the shape (of the cake)", and the first part of the sentence is similar to the adjective in my "Cool is the weather" sentence. So, to my way of thinking, the original sentence could be considered "poetic" at best. For everyday English, however, it really ought to be reworded.


The use of "depending on" in that sentence tends to make it sound as though the shape of the cake is relying on the occasion.


If you still don't agree or see my point, that's OK. (I really don't feel like arguing about it.)

dimsumexpress  +  962970 Fri, 06 Nov 09 02:09 AM
Now I am curious...

"Prices may vary depending on location" which is the example I tried to use as a parallel to the original question. I saw this usage quite a few times before at McDonalds as different stores have different pricing policy. Amy pointed out something which is the gerund usage which didn't hit me until now.

Now I have a different question: Is "depending on location..." a participle/ adverbial phrase, or a noun phrase? It would seem to me that it has the characteristics of all 3.

 

 

 

Joined on Mon, Oct 12 2009
Full Member 273
CalifJim  +  963044 Fri, 06 Nov 09 04:34 AM
Yankee
“... similar to the adjective in my "Cool is the weather" sentence. So, to my way of thinking, the original sentence could be considered "poetic" at best. For everyday English, however, it really ought to be reworded. ”
Poetic, indeed.  "Black were her eyes as the berry that grows on the thorn by the wayside."  (Longfellow)  Definitely not everyday English.


Yankee
“I really don't feel like arguing about it.”
I can sympathize.  Depending on my mood would be my desire to argue. 


CJ

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004
California
Veteran Member 22,379
"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche
CalifJim  +  963049 Fri, 06 Nov 09 04:39 AM
dimsumexpress
“ It would seem to me that it has the characteristics of all 3”
It would depend on context, though the use of "depending on location" is more difficult (for me) to contextualize (without some modification) as a noun phrase. 


CJ

dimsumexpress  +  963073 Fri, 06 Nov 09 05:03 AM
Hi CJ,

Would this context be adequate?

 

A 3 bedroom 2 bath home would have cost anywhere from $500,000 to $1,000,000 in 2006 in Califiornia, depending on the locations and school districts.....

CalifJim  +  963085 Fri, 06 Nov 09 05:15 AM
No.  Sorry.  I think you've got the wrong end of the stick as far as noun phrases are concerned.  In your example, the depending phrase is adverbial.  The noun phrase version has to be a subject or object of some kind.


Noun phrases underlined.


Depending on the location to be acceptable without actually looking at the property would be foolish.


Their biggest mistake was depending on location alone to bring in profits.


CJ

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