Descriptive or prescriptive

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PHILIPKA

#158716 Tue, 15 Nov 05 04:31 AM

Hi Clive,

I'm afraid I won't say that I strongly disgree with your suggestion; I doubt that at the time I was writing my reply to Mr Pedantic I had your suggestion in mind. I believe I did read it, though, before I got to Mr Pedantic's, but I can't say for certain that it struck me as something I should address. Infact if you hadn't sent in this reply of yours I wouldn't have been aware of your suggestion. Perhaps what I had at the back of my mind when I was replying to Mr Pedantic's is the old standing debate in language teaching circles as to whether it is proper or pedagogical wise to correct students' errors as frequently as they come. I have encountered this debate among my fellow language teachers.

Now, my agreeing with Mr Pedantic's position, even if strongly, does not necessarily mean that I disagree with yours. I, myself, do not find it feasible to correct all errors all the time. Infact because I take a more functional linguistics approach to language, I do tolerate expressions which within the prescriptive mould would be marked down as wrong. Even my colleagues who are more puristic inclined do not find it, as you put it, practical to correct all mistakes all the time.

You wish to know whether I have ever taught a language class. Yes, I have! Still, I do make mistakes in my usage!

Hope this addresses the questions you raised!

Love!

PHILIPKA

Joined on Sun, Sep 26 2004

Norway

New Member (09)

Expressions

Clive

#158719 Tue, 15 Nov 05 04:52 AM

Hi again, Philipka,

In particular, I was trying to respond to your remarks that The point is that the use of "tallest" and "I" in those sentences is wrong -- grammatically wrong!!! I can't find any pedagogical or linguistic or politically-correct excuse for tolerating them in an English teaching class. I see from your last reply that I must have misinterpreted this. My apologies.

Clive

Joined on Thu, Oct 28 2004

Canada

Veteran Member (22,480)

El tango argentino es un pensamiento triste que se puede bailar (The tango argentino is a sad thought which can be danced) Enrique Santos Discépolo

PHILIPKA

#158726 Tue, 15 Nov 05 05:13 AM

Hi Clive,

Apologies accepted. But I do not find this worth apologising for. We are all learning. I, for one, I'm happy we can exchange views on something that we all like and care about, how language works!

Love, again!

PHILIPKA

Teo

#160010 Fri, 18 Nov 05 01:30 PM

"The superlative is often used for a comparison between two persons, items, etc [3], though this is avoided in careful usage where the comparative [3a] is preferred:

He is the younger (of the two brothers). [3]
He is the youngest (of the two brothers). [3a]"
A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language, 1985

"Which (of these two) is the strongest?"
A Practical English Grammar, by A. J. Thomson & A. V. Martinet, 1980

Teo

Joined on Tue, Sep 28 2004

Taiwan

Contributing Member (1,631)

Thank you very much for your reply.

Teo

#160064 Fri, 18 Nov 05 04:09 PM

%They invited my partner and I to lunch.

The above example is regularly used by a significant proportion of speakers of Standard English, and not generally thought by ordinary speakers to be non-standard; they pass unnoticed in broadcast speech all the time.

For further information, please consult The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, published by Cambridge University Press, 2002.

Teo

Grammar, Universities

CalifJim

#160100 Fri, 18 Nov 05 06:44 PM

whether it is proper or pedagogical wise to correct students' errors as frequently as they come

Not for me, anyway. I hired a tutor when I was learning French. He corrected every "de" and "a" to the point where I could not even concentrate on the topic of the conversation. I told him in no uncertain terms that he was going to have to stop that ridiculous behavior if he didn't want to be fired. (He improved immensely after that little talk. Even though I had said it in my (then) broken French, I am certain he understood me!)

Unfortunately, classroom students don't have that choice.

I am a strong believer in the idea that language is acquired, not learned. The teacher is merely a caretaker of a process going on naturally inside the student. Constant niggling over details can only subvert the process. I find that if a student has a particular difficulty (e.g., "before to tell" instead of "before telling") it is best to correct with explanations only the mistakes of that kind for a period of time, with occasional praise for the use of the correct form when appropriate (not in the middle of a conversation!). Correcting all kinds of mistakes all the time is futile. Students acquire certain elements of the language in a certain order, and filling their heads with material not appropriate to the level of language they have currently acquired is like talking to a wall! One may as well save one's breath and do the student a favor at the same time.

At least that's how it has worked well for me so far.

CJ

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (17,714)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Conversations

pieanne

#160102 Fri, 18 Nov 05 06:58 PM

I don't think it's wise to correct every single mistake a student does when they speak. For many it's hard to speak up, and all the more in a foreign language. I usually zero in on the main/big mistake, explain (of course), and then, as lessons/weeks, months etc go by, we can refine the speech, once the basics have been acquired.