Whats the difference of pronunciation of /ɜː/ compared to /ə/

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Scrumpyjackk

#119396 Mon, 18 Jul 05 10:32 PM

Whats the difference of pronunciation of /ɜː/ compared to /ə/ ?
/ɜː/ -> bird
/ə/ -> winner

both seem to make the same sound.

I'd appreciate any help.
Thanks.

Scrumpyjackk

Joined on Mon, Jul 18 2005

New Member (05)

Pronunciation

Pyewacket

#119724 Wed, 20 Jul 05 03:12 AM

I am a native speaker and teach pronunciation. I think /ir/ is a STRESSED vowel with an /r/ sound and /er/ is an UNSTRESSED vowel or schwa with an /r/ sound. Stressed vowels are generally longer and stronger than the unstressed schwa. Because the schwa is not a stressed vowel, the sound very short. Actually, you can't even distinguish the sound as a typical vowel sound.

Pyewacket

Joined on Wed, Jul 13 2005

Northern California, USA

Junior Member (67)

"The aim of life is to live, and to live means to be aware, joyously, drunkenly, serenely, divinely aware." -- Henry Miller

Vowels, Pronunciation

CalifJim

#120259 Fri, 22 Jul 05 05:52 AM

I'm only getting question marks for those symbols, but if you are referring to the R-colored vowel sounds in "bird" and "winner", the difference should be explained by a speaker of British English, where there is a difference. As an American, I can only tell you that these vowels are the same, differing only in stress.

CJ

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (18,317)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Vowels, Pronunciation, British English, Question Marks

Coachpotato

#120285 Fri, 22 Jul 05 09:35 AM

Well, I'm not a native speaker of English but as far as I know the vowel sound you use in BIRD is a long vowel the same as in girl, nurse, world, work, church, burn ...

While the other is the same you have for example in teacher, another... It's not a long vowel and it only appears in unaccented syllables.

Coachpotato

Joined on Wed, Jul 20 2005

Spain

Full Member (233)

Vowels, Pronunciation

Anonymous

#120381 Fri, 22 Jul 05 05:16 PM

Have to disagree with the vowel sound you use in BIRD is a long vowel. The long vowel "i" sound is the "i"sound in "find," "mine," "grind," "like," "tribe."

The difference between the ir and er is, indeed, the accent. Probably has roots to British pronunciation (e.g., Director = British "dye-rector" as opposed to American "da-rector".)

An interesting tidbit here, I think, is that the short "i" vowel in "bird" has no phonetic purpose: A "silent" vowel. Take the vowel out of "bird" or any of those "vowel-r" examples and you can still correctly pronounce the word!

Anonymous

Vowels, Accents, Difference Between, Pronunciation, Phonetics

Coachpotato

#120583 Sat, 23 Jul 05 10:34 AM

Hi Anonimous, I'm afraid I don't agree with you. As I said before I'm not a native English speaker but I've always been taught that BIRD is pronounced with a long vowel sound, the same sound you pronounce in nurse, girl, etc. If you look it up in a dictionary the phonetic transcription is: b 3: d

Coachpotato

Vowels, Pronunciation, Phonetics

Pyewacket

#120769 Sun, 24 Jul 05 02:36 AM

I think the difference is in the stress of the vowel. See my previous post.

Pyewacket

Vowels, Pronunciation

Eimai_Anglos

#120879 Sun, 24 Jul 05 01:31 PM

Anonymous wrote:
An interesting tidbit here, I think, is that the short "i" vowel in "bird" has no phonetic purpose: A "silent" vowel. Take the vowel out of "bird" or any of those "vowel-r" examples and you can still correctly pronounce the word!

Not so for my (north) English accent. When I say "bird" you will not hear the "r" and the "i" is a long "oe" sound. In fact it's the same sound that I use in "heard", "herd", "curd" and "third".

Listen to me, here:
http://www.the-cool-book-shop.co.uk/sound1/english.htm

Eimai_Anglos

Joined on Thu, Jun 23 2005

Cheshire, England

Full Member (472)

Martin - native English speaker and technical author.

Vowels, Accents, Pronunciation, Phonetics

CalifJim

#121034 Mon, 25 Jul 05 04:40 AM

Anonymous,

I think Couchpotato is referring to duration when he says "long". In addition to taking stress, the "ir" in "bird" actually lasts longer than the "er" in "winner". In American English, these are the only differences. (In British English, there is an additional difference: the "er" of "winner" is closer to a schwa.)

You are referring, in contrast, to the tense-lax distinction (hop/hope, lack/lake, ...) "long"/"short".

Your differing definitions are the source of a disagreement that, in all probability, is not really a disagreement at all.

CJ

CalifJim

American English, Pronunciation, British English, Tenses

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