does choose express obligation?

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Inchoateknowledge  #319480  Wed, 24 Jan 07 10:09 PM

 Marius Hancu wrote:
Incho:

You're the only one in this thread supporting your point of view.

You've been told the truth by others (not me), including educated native speakers. If you don't believe them, find some examples of real speech in educated literature or sites which shore up your point, don't just talk, sorry.

I am not supporting my view. I just want to be convinced that I am wrong.

I do not have enough money, but I want both cars. However, they are not available.

Now I am contemplating what I would do should the cars be available and the dealers would not be willing to give any reduction in price: So if I were to choose (because they would not give me any discount), I would choose the silver one.

Is this not correct because the past subjunctive use of be to loses its obligation?

Talk = inquire?

  
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Inchoateknowledge  #319483  Wed, 24 Jan 07 10:12 PM

 CalifJim wrote:
Why must expresses epistemic modality -- it must be the mailman,  and must not carries only deontic modality
Not to spoil the argument you're making here, but to clarify a tangential matter:  This is not true for American English, which allows the following:

-- Janette is not eating the peas.
-- Hmmm.  She must not like them
.  (epistemic must not)

CJ

Hi CJ

Indeed, must not is used to mean something is higly unlikely but still possible

It must not be the postman.

But I am sure you knew what I meant.

Sometimes with modals the negation changes modality.

  
Inchoateknowledge  #319490  Wed, 24 Jan 07 10:17 PM

Shall we form a mutual admiration society and always agree on everything.

Being argumentative does not mean being disrespectful. So long as it is so and arguments help learners, I do not see any harm done.

  
Goodman  #319499  Wed, 24 Jan 07 10:58 PM
 Inchoateknowledge wrote:
 Goodman wrote:

<edited by mod>

I wonder whyThinking [8-)]

Goodman, turn to a new page.

And "breathe" more

Inch,

I just don’t know if you realize that the image you have projected around here is that of an annoying and obnoxious fly. No matter how we swat, you keep coming back with your agitation! You are a pretty smart guy from reading your posts, but you don’t have to prove your intelligence by relentlessly arguing over something. You are too smart for your own good; you know!  Now, you told Goodman to leave you alone, so he did. Unless you like some more of his [breathing] down on you.

 

 

  
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Inchoateknowledge  #319506  Wed, 24 Jan 07 11:22 PM
 Goodman wrote:
 Inchoateknowledge wrote:
 Goodman wrote:

<edited by mod>

I wonder whyThinking [8-)]

Goodman, turn to a new page.

And "breathe" more

Inch,

I just don’t know if you realize that the image you have projected around here is that of an annoying and obnoxious fly. No matter how we swat, you keep coming back with your agitation! You are a pretty smart guy from reading your posts, but you don’t have to prove your intelligence by relentlessly arguing over something. You are too smart for your own good; you know!  Now, you told Goodman to leave you alone, so he did. Unless you like some more of his [breathing] down on you.

 

 

Actually, at least in my opinion, I must come across as a (pis s) artist idiot to others. But I hope one day I will be good in English

a pis-artist

BRITISH & AUSTRALIAN, INFORMAL 
someone who tries to make people believe they have knowledge about a subject, but who really does not know much about it 

  
Ant_222  #319516  Wed, 24 Jan 07 11:58 PM
«Does choose express obligation?»

«If I were to 'choose between the two cars (because I have money for only one), I would choose the silver on.»

What do you mean? Obligation to choose or what?

If you mean the obligation to choose one and only one car of the two cars, then this obligation is expressed by "choose between". In other words, "choose between" means picking only one of the items.

"If I were", "If I had to", "If I was obliged to" all describe the external context, which (in this case) is in no way connected with the use of "choose". With any of those if-clauses "choose" will mean the same.

Hope that helps.
  
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Marius Hancu  #319536  Thu, 25 Jan 07 12:23 AM
 Inchoateknowledge wrote:
Is this not correct because the past subjunctive use of be to loses its obligation?

Yes, basically this is it.

(If I were to choose ...)

I don't have this in any books (otherwise I'd tell you), just by practice. Only its indicative form seems to imply obligation. 

See what contrex says at the link I gave you:
------
"If I were" in your example carries no sense of obligation.

To do that, you could  write "If I had to choose", or "If I was to
choose"
, but this latter invites confusion because of the creeping
tendency for people to use the simple past in place of the subjunctive
"If I were".

If you were describing a past obligation, you would generally use the
simple past thus:

I opened the envelope containing my orders. I was to proceed at once to
Madrid and report to Colonel Gonzalez.

The sergeant gave our instructions. We were to attack at dawn.
---------
We were to
here, is, of course, indicative, not subjunctive.

  
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milky  #319570  Thu, 25 Jan 07 01:57 AM

<«If I were to 'choose between the two cars (because I have money for only one), I would choose the silver on.» >

Please, Incho. If you have only enough money for one car then, your financial situation obliges you to choose.

So, It's not "if I were to choose" (you can choose, but you don't have to) , but "If I have to choose" (something obliges you). And, in your financial situation above, no "if" is necessary anyway. You have to to choose.

  
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Hume said that if we had perfect or complete descriptive knowledge of reality, we could not, by reasoning, derive a single valid "ought".
Inchoateknowledge  #319657  Thu, 25 Jan 07 06:52 AM
 Milky wrote:

<«If I were to 'choose between the two cars (because I have money for only one), I would choose the silver on.» >

Please, Incho. If you have only enough money for one car then, your financial situation obliges you to choose.

So, It's not "if I were to choose" (you can choose, but you don't have to) , but "If I have to choose" (something obliges you). And, in your financial situation above, no "if" is necessary anyway. You have to to choose.

They will not give me both cars for the money I have.

Consequently, I must choose because they will not give me discount on the cars I want so much.

constraint:

unnatural behaviour which is sometimes the result of forcing yourself to act in a particular way:
She tried to appear friendly, but her constraint was obvious.

IS this constrain a must or a have to?

IMO, it is a must.

And at last, now I see the light. I do not have to choose, but I must.

My feelings force me to do sg = must

Thanks

  
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