Rolleston    874686 Fri, 09 Apr 04 09:23 PM "The Metropolitan Police's big poster campaign in the London Underground tries to warn us to be vigilant. If anyone sees an unattended bag, however, they tell us:" Please, that's no way to refer to an old lady. ""Don't touch, check with other passengers, inform station staff, or call 999."" A Daily Tomorrow headline: Passenger dies contemplating grammatical complexities. R. Rolleston Countries, United Kingdom, Great Britain

	Mark Brader    874750 Fri, 09 Apr 04 11:05 PM Philip Eden quotes: ""Don't touch, check with other passengers, inform station staff, or call 999."" Good thing Britain also has the European standard emergency number, then. Clearly the thing to do here is to call 112! Mark Brader > "The occasional accidents had been much overemphasized, Toronto > and later investigations ... revealed that nearly 90% (Email Removed) > ... could have been prevented." Wiley Post, 1931 Mark Brader Writing, Numbers

	Mark Brader    874765 Fri, 09 Apr 04 11:17 PM Philip Eden quoted: "It bothers me to realize that my profession would see nothing wrong with the original; the "NOT" Boolean operator binds tighter than either "AND" or "OR"..." It bothers me too that R.H. feels that way, because the ambiguously scoped "don't" isn't the only thing wrong here; the punctuation also implies a 4-element "or" list, which isn't the right structure. A minimal fix would be to replace the first comma with a semicolon or dash. A while back I was riding a GO train (Toronto-area commuter service) and copied down a similarly badly constructed notice about its alarm: USE IN CASE OF FIRE, HARASSMENT ILLNESS, ACCIDENT, VANDALISM OR PASSENGER SAFETY Apparently a passenger who feels safe is supposed to operate the alarm. (I won't even mention "harassment illness".) On the same train was another version of the notice, too: USE FOR FIRE, HARASSMENT, ILLNESS, ACCIDENTS, PASSENGER SAFETY & VANDALISM This avoids the "in case of safety" problem by sylleptically collapsing two different uses of "for". Mark Brader, Toronto > Keep out of eyes if this occurs, rinse with water. (Email Removed) > (Directions seen on shampoo bottle) My text in this article is in the public domain. Mark Brader Articles, Commas, Writing, Punctuation, Semicolons

	Stewart Gordon    875167 Fri, 09 Apr 04 11:32 PM "The Metropolitan Police's big poster campaign in the London Underground tries to warn us to be vigilant. If anyone sees an unattended bag, however, they tell us: "Don't touch, check with other passengers, inform station staff, or call 999."" A bit like "Don't guess, use a timer or watch". Which to Lynne Truss means "Don't guess. Don't use a timer or a watch either." But to me it means "Don't guess. Don't use a timer. Don't watch." Stewart. My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox. Please keep replies on on the 'group where everyone may benefit. Stewart Gordon Countries, United Kingdom, Great Britain

	Philip Eden     874837 Sat, 10 Apr 04 01:00 AM "It bothers me to realize that my profession would see nothingwrong with the original; the "NOT" Boolean operator binds tighter than either "AND" or "OR"..." "It bothers me too that R.H. feels that way, because theambiguously scoped "don't" isn't the only thing wrong here; the ... which isn't the right structure. A minimal fix would be to replace the first comma with a semicolon or dash." Yes. A semi-colon is all I would have asked for. Philip Eden Philip Eden Commas, Punctuation, Semicolons

	Mark Brader    875024 Sat, 10 Apr 04 06:44 AM Philip Eden: "Yes. A semi-colon is all I would have asked for." That's like a semicolon, but with a hyphen between the dot and the comma-shape? :-) Mark Brader, Toronto > "To the vector go the spoils." (Email Removed) > Norton Juster, "The Dot and the Line" Mark Brader Hyphenation, Punctuation, Semicolons

	Charles Riggs    875074 Sat, 10 Apr 04 10:31 AM "Martin Watts filted:" "I'd be tempted to make it: "Don't touch. Check with other passengers and then inform station staff or call 999."" I'm fine with that, too. "It bothers me to realize that my profession would see nothing wrong with the original; the "NOT" Boolean operator binds tighter than either "AND" or "OR"..r" The commas do the trick for me, except for the last one which somewhat muddles things. I wouldn't need semicolons to make clear what the writer intended. That leaves, for me, the other problem with the sentence: the first two things having been done, one should inform the authorities. My version, then, would be: 'Don't touch, check with other passengers, then inform station staff or call 999.' Charles Riggs My email address: chriggs/at/eircom/dot/net Charles Riggs Commas, Sentences, Punctuation, Semicolons

	Maria Conlon    875557 Sun, 11 Apr 04 12:26 AM "Martin Watts filted:" "I'm fine with that, too." "It bothers me to realize that my profession would see nothingwrong with the original; the "NOT" Boolean operator binds tighter than either "AND" or "OR"..r" "The commas do the trick for me, except for the last one whichsomewhat muddles things. I wouldn't need semicolons to ... informthe authorities. My version, then, would be: 'Don't touch, check with other passengers, then inform station staff or call 999.'" One way to interpret the original from Philip actually, it was the first way I interpreted it is "Don't touch, don't check with other passengers, don't inform station staff or call 999." With a comma after the first in the series ("don't touch"), the "don't" carries forward to all commands that follow. (As RH has already indicated.) Adding "then" did make it a bit less likely to be read incorrectly, but it did not fully eliminate the ambiguity. IMO. Putting a period (or a semicolon) after "touch" would stop the continuing "don'ts." (As Martin as already indicated.) I asked someone else to read the sentence in question, and that person did not extend the "don'ts" but saw the sentence the way you did. That comes, I think, with grasping the point immediately and not needing to read too carefully. The big problem with that is that not everyone's mind works that way, and not everyone's native language is English. Maria Conlon When it's you against the world, back the world. (Zappa) Maria Conlon Commas, Sentences, Countries, United Kingdom, Great Britain, Punctuation, Languages, Semicolons