even quite educated ones

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milky

#384006 Mon, 25 Jun 07 09:01 AM

Kooyeen seems to be having trouble understanding the meaning of "even educated ones" in my post about "there's". Here, I've posted another example of the same expression. It is from the «English Speaking Union’s ( E.S.U.’s ) Nine-Level Scale».

"Level 9 PRE PROFICIENCY

Has a full command of the language, tackling the most difficult tasks with consistent accuracy, fluency, appropriate usage, organisation and comprehension. An exceptional level of mastery, not always reached by native speakers, even quite educated ones."

How would you explain such an expression to someone who did not understand its reference and meaning?

milky

Joined on Thu, Jan 15 2004

Senior Member (3,149)

Hume said that if we had perfect or complete descriptive knowledge of reality, we could not, by reasoning, derive a single valid "ought".

Expressions

Kooyeen

#384205 Mon, 25 Jun 07 07:46 PM

LOL, you even opened a thread about this...
Well, I wouldn't have any problem with that "even quite educated ones" in that context. Having a full command of the language... blah blah blah is not simple, not even for quite educated ones. But in the other thread, I found "even educated spekers" strange...

Kooyeen

Joined on Thu, Dec 22 2005

Italy

Senior Member (3,972)

If you don't have a sense of humor already, it's about time you buy one.

milky

#384269 Tue, 26 Jun 07 12:59 AM

But why?

You took up half the thread with an enquiry which was off topic.

milky

Kooyeen

#384608 Tue, 26 Jun 07 11:14 PM

Milky wrote:

But why?

You took up half the thread with an enquiry which was off topic.

No, that was not completely off topic. I think you were surprised that educated speakers used "that's + plural", and you asked for some opinions. Well, I was NOT surprised that educated speakers talked that way. Even if you are highly educated, what prevents you from using idiomatic English instead of applying prescriptive rules all the time? You should be brainwashed to do that, not educated... Wink [;)]

Kooyeen

Plurals

milky

#384617 Tue, 26 Jun 07 11:45 PM

Kooyeen wrote:

No, that was not completely off topic. I think you were surprised that educated speakers used "that's + plural", *

The thread was about "there's + plural noun".

Are you saying that "there are lots of museums" is not idiomatic English?

milky

Nouns, Plurals

Kooyeen

#385514 Thu, 28 Jun 07 11:11 PM

I'm sorry, but I think there's something wrong. This is what you posted:

Quite a few linguists ( J Cheshire being one) state -------> that, even among educated people, usage such as "There's lots of museums" is more common that the grammatically correct "There are lots of museums". -------> How did that come about? Why is the ungrammatical form more popular, even among educated people?

Isn't that about the fact that "there's + plural" is very popular even among educated people?
Then I said I was not surprised, so the answer to your questions is: "I'm not surprised, therefore in my opinion it's normal."
So, on second thought, I would say I was completely on topic, LOL.

I didn't say "There are lots of museums" is not idiomatic, it IS idiomatic. But "There's lots of museums" is idiomatic as well.

Kooyeen

Plurals

Anonymous

#385651 Fri, 29 Jun 07 08:54 AM

Was this a typo, then?

<<No, that was not completely off topic. I think you were surprised that educated speakers used "that's + plural", *>>

Anonymous

Plurals

Kooyeen

#385845 Fri, 29 Jun 07 05:16 PM

Well, weren't you surprised?
I mean, you heard about that fact, and then you posted here asking "How come? Why?"... if you had thought that was not surprising, you wouldn't have posted, would you?

Kooyeen

Anonymous

#386552 Sun, 01 Jul 07 11:50 AM

Kooyeen wrote:
Well, weren't you surprised?
I mean, you heard about that fact, and then you posted here asking "How come? Why?"... if you had thought that was not surprising, you wouldn't have posted, would you?

Do you see the difference between these?

<<I think you were surprised that educated speakers used "that's + plural", *>>

<<<Quite a few linguists ( J Cheshire being one) state that, even among educated people, usage such as "There's lots of museums">>>

Again, I didn't say anything about "that's + plural", I commented on "there's + plural.

Anonymous

Difference between, Plurals

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