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Latest post Thu, Oct 26 2006 6:38 PM by Vaid². 12 replies.
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Farukmert  +  148077 Sat, 15 Oct 05 12:50 PM

 I ask for a brief answer; can you build a building without ground floor? you cannot. how can you build a theory without explaining the origin of first living organism? Give me a logical answerchemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />>>

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Joined on Thu, Oct 6 2005
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Mister Micawber  +  148089 Sat, 15 Oct 05 02:27 PM

Using the first living thing on Earth as a model


By William J. Cromie

Gazette Staff

Jack Szostak is trying to make a living organism out of nonliving chemicals.

It would be a modest creature, a microscopic bit of genetic material in a bubble of fat, capable of making copies of itself and evolving into a more efficient form of life. The creature would be modeled on the first, or one of the first, living things that appeared on Earth about 4 billion years ago.

"We're trying to imagine the simplest possible system that could get life started, then make it in our lab," said Szostak, a professor of genetics who works at Massachusetts General Hospital.

The best candidate for the first organism is a bit of ribonucleic acid (RNA) enclosed in a plain capsule. RNA can store information like a gene and reproduce itself. It makes up the genes of viruses.

"We're concentrating on making such an organism because, once it formed, most biologists agree that the first single-celled creature would follow," Szostak explains. Neither plant nor animal, such an organism would then give rise to creatures like bacteria, algae, and amoebas.

Much the same thing could have happened on Mars. Recently, NASA scientists announced that they may have found signs of life in a 4-billion-year-old meteor knocked to Earth from that planet. Szostak is skeptical about the finding, but he hopes that robots or astronauts may someday bring back samples of living Martian microbes.

If such primitive Martians have the same biology as early Earthlings, it would be "interesting, but relatively boring," Szostak thinks. "But if they have a fundamentally different biology, it would be fantastic! If life arose in different forms in different places, it would tell us that life could evolve in multiple forms all over the universe."

Good Progress Made

When Earth first formed about 4.5 million years ago, it was volcanic-hot and battered by rains of large meteorites. Most scientists believe life began shortly after the lethal impacts stopped, and the planet cooled enough to allow water to exist. Fossil evidence shows that primitive creatures, looking like today's bacteria, existed around 3.8-4 billion years ago.

For 10 years, Szostak has been trying to repeat hundreds of millions of years of evolution in his lab. He has not yet shouted: "Eureka, it's alive!" But he claims to have "learned a lot and made good progress."

A Nobel Prize-winning discovery by a colleague started him down the road to lab life. In 1982, Thomas Cech of the University of Colorado discovered that pieces of RNA living in a single-celled animal can splice themselves out of larger RNA molecules. That means RNA has the capability of doing chemistry on its own, specifically, the chemical reaction involved in splicing. From there, it's easy to assume that RNA can promote, or catalyze, other reactions, such as reproducing itself.

"That made it much easier to think about the origin of life," Szostak says. "Cech's discovery inspired me to think of ways of making RNAs that could catalyze their own replication."

At the time, he was working with yeast, studying how its genetic material reproduces itself when a cell divides to make two daughter cells from one parent. "The lab techniques that Cech used were not all that different from mine," he recalls. "I thought there'd be a few interesting experiments I could do. Five years later, my lab had completely changed focus from yeast to self-replicating RNA."

Today, he and his colleagues are close to an RNA catalyst, or enzyme, that copies other RNA molecules. If the molecule being copied is another copy of itself, then he will have an RNA enzyme that can be both the copier and the thing being copied.

"The way we do this is to harness the power of evolution," Szostak notes. "Since we don't know how to design better RNA, we have to evolve them. We're trying to evolve from an RNA that joins pieces of RNA to itself, to an RNA that copies itself and other RNA."

But evolving RNA like that on a newly formed planet is a huge problem. Szostak calls it "the biggest challenge left in our understanding of the origin of life."

RNA, like the DNA of which all modern genes are made, is put together from four chemical units, or bases, plus phosphate and a sugar. Some of these building blocks have been made in labs, using gases and other elements thought to be present at the beginning of Earth. But no one can figure out how to put these ingredients together to make long RNA molecules.

On the young Earth, the construction may have taken place in shallow coastal ponds that periodically dried up. That would allow the necessary chemicals to concentrate on particles of moist clay, or to be trapped in bubbles of fat.

One possible scenario cited by Szostak has some of the ingredients forming in volcanoes, then being washed down into ponds or shallow lakes by rain. The necessary compounds could also have been formed in the air with the help of lightning, or been bought to Earth by comets or meteorites.

Due to limitations of time and lab equipment, Szostak skips this part and starts with trillions of pieces of RNA in a solution. In living things, RNAs are made of varying sequences of the four bases; RNAs that do different jobs contain different sequences. "In our lab," he explains, "we start with lots of random sequences and try to find the rare ones that do something interesting, like catalyze a chemical reaction."

After selecting such promising RNAs out of the dilute soup, his team uses a system of directed evolution to make them work more efficiently. This involves putting in mutants, or changing the sequences slightly, then selecting the best sequences over and over until effective catalysts are found. Such evolution-in-glass yields molecules that fold up into three dimensions and serve as catalysts necessary for RNA copying.

Another life investigator, Gerald Joyce of Scripps Research Institute in California, worked out the same technique. Szostak and Joyce shared the 1994 National Academy of Sciences Monsanto Prize in Molecular Biology for this achievement.

With the help of this technique, Dave Bartel, a former student of Szostak's, succeeded in making an RNA enzyme that, under the best of conditions, joins together six RNA units or bases. "This really was a great breakthrough," Szostak comments.

Bartel, now at M.I.T.'s Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research, showed for the first time that an RNA enzyme can do the same reaction done by proteins in more organized forms of life. "Now that this has been shown, all we have to do is use evolution to make it work better. By this means we should be able to get self-replication," says Szostak.

In today's world, protein enzymes assemble hundreds of thousands of chemical units into complex molecules needed for everything from growing a toe to thinking a thought. RNA enzymes have now been relegated to a minor role.

"The important point here is that protein enzymes came later because RNA-based cells evolved a way to make the first proteins," Szostak points out. "So one of the big projects in my lab is to evolve RNA enzymes that carry out all the steps needed for protein synthesis."

Putting It Together

A naked RNA molecule can't copy itself. It needs to be enclosed in a thin envelope, a bubble of fat, that keeps out harmful substances while letting in beneficial ones. Virtually every modern cell has such a protective covering, a soft armor of fat and protein complete with entry and exit ports. Surely, the first membranes were much simpler, but no one knows how and of what materials they were made.

"Surprisingly, few people are working on this problem," Szostak lamented. "Once protected by a membrane, RNA could evolve much more quickly."

Nature now constructs proteins from amino acids, small molecules made principally of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen -- elements present when Earth first formed. Various researchers have created amino acids from combinations of these elements dissolved in sea water solutions. Stanley Miller at the University of California, San Diego, for example, passed electric discharges (to simulate lightning) through such mixtures and produced 13 of the 20 amino acids essential for building proteins.

Building on such experiments, Szostak has made an RNA molecule capable of bonding amino acids together. The next step is to link them together into so-called peptides. Put peptides together and you have proteins.

"It's an exciting advance," he says. "I'm sure we're not too far away from building small proteins with the help of RNA enzymes."

Down By the Sea

Szostak does not champion the idea that life began in hot springs on the ocean floor where a primitive one-celled creature, called an archeon, was recently discovered. Its genes show that it shares a common evolutionary heritage with us, but not with bacteria. The consensus is that both archeons and bacteria came from a common, even simpler creature. But even this one-celled organism is far more complicated than the first living thing.

"A lot of evolution had to occur before RNA, working alone, could have evolved into a cell like this, complete with genes and proteins," Szostak believes.

Viruses are the only organisms that now have genes made of RNA. DNA took over that vital function very early in evolution, even before the ancestors of archeons and bacteria.

"We believe life on Earth started with RNA molecules that stored genetic information and catalyzed the chemical reactions needed to make proteins," Szostak says. "Hundreds of millions of years later, the two functions became specialized. DNA now stores the genetic blueprints that make an organism an amoeba or a human. Proteins catalyze all of life's chemistry, including the replication of DNA that passes from parents to offspring."

Details of how Earth went from an RNA to a DNA world are lost forever in the natural record. All traces of the origin of life have long been destroyed by chemistry, geology, and the biology of more complex, more voracious creatures.

"Our only hope of reconstructing life is via laboratory experiments," Szostak says. "If we make something everyone agrees is alive, that would provide a plausible scenario for the great event. But, because the trail is billions of years cold, we'll never really know for sure if we're right."

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TeacherBrian  +  163099 Sat, 26 Nov 05 07:02 PM

If I understand the arguments for evolution, we start first with self-replicating 'genetic' material, like RNA...say the scientists... Hmmm....  That seems a funny place to start! It seems that the hard part has already been done!      And apparently scientists are trying to make such self-replicating material....presumably, if they accomplish it, they will announce "Look! We have made self-replicating material, we have made life!"...but if they do, it will clearly prove that life actually needs a maker, thus defeating the contention that it all happens by chance and accident.

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Brian M.
Stannum  +  163127 Sat, 26 Nov 05 08:01 PM
 Farukmert wrote:

 I ask for a brief answer; can you build a building without ground floor? you cannot. how can you build a theory without explaining the origin of first living organism? Give me a logical answerchemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />>>

> >

g'day farukmert

yes

this can be accomplished by building a tree house

this can also be accomplished by suspending a building by a cord

if a house is built on stilts to keep it above the ground it has no ground floor

a house boat has no ground floor but it is still a house

 

robert

an argument based on a self defined premise has no loogical basis and if that self defined premise is wrong all that flows from it is flawed

Joined on Fri, Oct 28 2005
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Regular Member 526
Lionel In Paris  +  163198 Sun, 27 Nov 05 01:45 AM
 TeacherBrian wrote:

"Look! We have made self-replicating material, we have made life!"...but if they do, it will clearly prove that life actually needs a maker, thus defeating the contention that it all happens by chance and accident.

 

Dear TeacherBrian,

I think your logic is flawed my friend. Things can be "made" and those same things can happen by "chance and accident". We could  "make" a forest fire with a box of matches or that same forest fire could be "made" by "chance and accident". A hot sun, some dry leaves, in the right circumstances you get spontaneous combustion.

In the same way life ( or the start of it) does not "need a maker", it needs the right circumstances, then life will burst forth on its own like any chemical reaction.I think you are maybe forgetting the time scale here, from the time the earth was formed to the time that life first started took several hundred million years.

Lionel

Joined on Thu, Oct 20 2005
Junior Member 94
TeacherBrian  +  172043 Tue, 20 Dec 05 02:41 AM

Thanks for your point. It is a good one and has made me think more about the issue.

To me it seems that you are talking about the conditions which may or may not contribute to the emergence of life. But when I re-read the details of the actual scientific experiments, as quoted above, they say such things as
"Jack Szostak is trying to make a living organism out of nonliving chemicals." 
"We're trying to evolve from an RNA that joins pieces of RNA to itself, to an RNA that copies itself and other RNA."
"RNA, like the DNA of which all modern genes are made, is put together from four chemical units, or bases, plus phosphate and a sugar. Some of these building blocks have been made in labs, using gases and other elements thought to be present at the beginning of Earth. But no one can figure out how to put these ingredients together to make long RNA molecules."
"Due to limitations of time and lab equipment, Szostak skips this part and starts with trillions of pieces of RNA in a solution."
"After selecting such promising RNAs out of the dilute soup, his team uses a system of directed evolution to make them work more efficiently. This involves putting in mutants, or changing the sequences slightly, then selecting the best sequences over and over until effective catalysts are found."
"With the help of this technique, Dave Bartel, a former student of Szostak's, succeeded in making an RNA enzyme that, under the best of conditions, joins together six RNA units or bases."
"A naked RNA molecule can't copy itself."
"Various researchers have created amino acids from combinations of these elements dissolved in sea water solutions."
 "Our only hope of reconstructing life is via laboratory experiments," Szostak says. "If we make something everyone agrees is alive, that would provide a plausible scenario for the great event."
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From comments such as these, it seems to me that scientists, are trying to make/create life, not trying to recreate the conditions in which evolution naturally happens. Or are these both the same thing?
Anonymous, 3 yr 291 days ago
 Lionel In Paris wrote:

Dear TeacherBrian,

I think your logic is flawed my friend. Things can be "made" and those same things can happen by "chance and accident". We could  "make" a forest fire with a box of matches or that same forest fire could be "made" by "chance and accident". A hot sun, some dry leaves, in the right circumstances you get spontaneous combustion.

In the same way life ( or the start of it) does not "need a maker", it needs the right circumstances, then life will burst forth on its own like any chemical reaction.I think you are maybe forgetting the time scale here, from the time the earth was formed to the time that life first started took several hundred million years.

Lionel

Let me tell you... if you only live life and only believe that which can be proved by logic- you are hopelessly lost, my friend. The most valuable tool of a scientist is mathematics. And this most valuable tool has proved scientists "theory" of evolution wrong. Probability- proved it wrong. There is virtually no way that evolution is possible, argue what you want- I am standing on what I believe.

Anonymous, 3 yr 288 days ago

All things in life are logical, whether or not we currently have the intelligence or capability to understand them is something different entirely. Just because the "current" theory of evolution is not totally flawless doesnt mean you just chuck the whole idea out the window! When you find something that is slightly broken, do you try and fix it or just throw it away? Mathematics are very much a powerful tool, I agree with that. Mathematics can also be speculative however also. Marginal mathematics, fractional quantitative theory, chaos theory, and most advanced math requires work to be done with unknowns as an example. If math was perfect at answering every question, then all questions could be answered with math allready and there would be no need for debates like this one? Supercomputers with quintillion cycles per second would be able to compute the answer to anything in the universe. Also... how exactly did math prove the theory of probability wrong? Probability simply states a given chance of something actually occuring, and unless I remember it wrong, any probable chance greater than zero is still a chance that it could have happened that way, and since there is no zero percent chance in mathematical probablility anything is possible...

JDSENT  +  193763 Tue, 07 Feb 06 03:27 PM
I'm sorry but his logic is flawed? Can a tornado blow through a junkyard and create a working Boeing 777? Statistics prove that this is much more likely to occur compared to evolution. This makes evolution based on nothing more than faith. If it is based on faith then why not believe something more believable (i.e. special creation)?
Joined on Mon, Feb 6 2006
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Everyone has their two cents to say... if we can add them all together, we will be infinitely rich
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