This is the first time Hamas *is running* candidates for parliament.

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Aperisic  #266056  Tue, 12 Sep 06 06:43 PM
 Kooyeen wrote:

I was told to use the present or past perfect in those situations, but I often find the present continuous (even in newspapers).

Kim O'Donnel: This is the first time I'm hearing a negative report.

He is surprised. And he says that hearing reports is happening frequently in his profession.

So when can I use the present continuous?

Sorry, I am not trying to be rude here, but you probably still cannot because you do not feel even when others use it why they use it.

this is the second post I'm writing in this thread

You can if one, some or all these conditions are met and you want to stress it (or them)

  • it is not a formal letter or post
  • you are excited or you hate or have some other strong feeling about writing posts (surprised maybe)
  • this is not going to be your last post written
  • you expect something after you finish writing
  • you want to tell us more later about the post you are writing
  • you want to make difference between writing it and finishing it
  • you want to say that you are just about the beginning of the post

Do not be confused. Nobody said about the grammar. Please, use the present perfect, always. This is just the explanation why people or journalists use it: to express excitement, joy…

If you feel sometimes that way you can use the present continuous. But not before you feel this intention when you read it. Grammatically the rule says the present perfect but when you sell the news - who cares about the grammar? It is an effect that is important far more. And that is why the present continuous is used. It is an exception that is permissible within a style. You'll find many of these in many forms.

Don’t let them confuse you. If you do not feel that the present continuous should be there - do not use it - but now you understand better, I hope, what it means when you read it.

[People who are born with English as their mother tongue are not only the users but also the owners of the language. They all are above the grammar. If sufficiently many of them feel that something is not appropriate or that something is better or useful, the grammar will change.]

  
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Yoong Liat  #266075  Tue, 12 Sep 06 07:35 PM

Hi Marius Hancu

My reply was in response to Kooyeen's query below. The second question asks 'What would be the difference if I wrote "has run" and "have met" in the above sentences?' The last two sentences of mine answer that question. This is why those sentences are in the past and  present perfect tense respectively.

Hi,

This is the first time Hamas is running candidates for parliament. --- This is the first time two former WHA teams are meeting for the Stanley Cup. (two sentences from the UsaToday)

Why is the present continuous used in those sentences? What would be the difference if I wrote "has run" and "have met" in the above sentences?

Thank you in advance.

  
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Welkins2139  #266085  Tue, 12 Sep 06 08:07 PM

 Marius Hancu wrote:
 Welkins2139 wrote:
According to Michael Swan, we use a simple present perfect tense in sentences like that.

Could you give some of Swan's examples?

This is the first time that I've heard her sing. 

Page 424.

  
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Aperisic  #266121  Tue, 12 Sep 06 09:15 PM

This is the first time that I've heard her sing(ing).

It is just the information that I hear her for the first time. Every grammar book will give you this as the only one correct, and it really is, within grammar.

But, for example, if I am a father and I have a daughter who suddenly one day at the party sang beautifully and amazed the guests I would say

"This is the first time that I'm hearing her sing(ing), I didn't even know she can."

However, if you write this variant on your test, sorry, you'll fail.

  
Marius Hancu  #266126  Tue, 12 Sep 06 09:32 PM
 Welkins2139 wrote:

 Marius Hancu wrote:
 Welkins2139 wrote:
According to Michael Swan, we use a simple present perfect tense in sentences like that.

Could you give some of Swan's examples?

This is the first time that I've heard her sing. 

Page 424.

Indeed, it is there, in the past time (5): simple present perfect and simple past (advanced points) section/this is the first time, and it is correct, of course.

The use of the present perfect with this is the first time is the preferred one in the classical literature, but this doesn't eliminate the validity of  sentences such as this one in The New York Times, which I'm sure has qualified editors:

-------

THE MEDIA BUSINESS: ADVERTISING; Marketers Follow the Flock to Spring Break

... . ''This is the first time that we're trying to capture the emotional ...View free preview

March 9, 2006 - By Julie Bosman (NYT) - Education - News
----------

See the present continuous in use, which, as I said in my first post in this thread:
gives one the feeling of participation to something still going on

Aperisic has provided convincing arguments in the above.


  
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Yoong Liat  #266723  Thu, 14 Sep 06 06:12 AM

 Kooyeen wrote: I don't know if I can say "this is the second post I'm writing in this thread," it should be "the second post I've written," even though I'm still writing it. But I'm not sure... :

Answer: "This is the second post I'm writing in this thread" should be used when you are in the process of writing. However, once you have completed writing it, you should say "This is the second post I've written in this thread". This is because you have finished what you wanted to do.

  
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