Follow-up to "Nagging conditional problem"

Hi,

In part of  the final  post of the thread started by Anon named "Nagging conditional problem", Marius wrote this:

If you happen to have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some? [this is more about present

or:  

Should you have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some? ["chancy" should

or:

On the chance that you have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some

Are these by Marius correct? I feel they should be since he is a guru but I don't understand how they  could be so. 

If you happen to have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some? [this is more about present -- if the if-clause is in present tense, can we use the modals 'could' and 'would'? Does the phrase 'happen to have' make any difference here?

Should you have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some? ["chancy" should -- To me, 'should' here is functionally equal to "if", so the sentence could be read:

If you have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some?

Anonymous

Are these by Marius correct? I feel they should be since he is a guru but I don't understand how they  could be so. 

If you happen to have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some? [this is more about present -- if the if-clause is in present tense, can we use the modals 'could' and 'would'? Does the phrase 'happen to have' make any difference here?

Should you have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some? ["chancy" should -- To me, 'should' here is functionally equal to "if", so the sentence could be read:

If you have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some?

If you happen to have money = If, by chance, it turns out that you have money 

CJ 

Anonymous

If you happen to have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some? [this is more about present -- if the if-clause is in present tense, can we use the modals 'could' and 'would'? Does the phrase 'happen to have' make any difference here?

Should you have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some? ["chancy" should -- To me, 'should' here is functionally equal to "if", so the sentence could be read:

If you have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some?

The first sentence means essentially the same as "...can/will you lend me some?", but "could/would" has the effect of "softening" the request -- making it seem less direct. The use of "happen to have" (as opposed to just "have") makes no difference to the point you're asking about. 

In the second sentence there is, to me, no tangible difference in meaning between "should" and "if". However, the version with "should" is more formal (or even slightly old-fashioned), and, in my part of the world, is much less likely to be heard in ordinary conversation. (In fact, in real life, I would in this context usually say "If you have any money...".)

could: about ability, would: about willingness

Anonymous

Thank you.

Would you say these are examples of any of traditional (?) first, or second, or third conditional or any of the acceptable variants thereof? I have been rubbing my eyes for any clues as to their relevance or relationship to the traditional (?) first, or second, or third conditional but they seem to be fleeting from me at best. 

If you happen to have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some?

Should you have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some?

[link]

The 2nd is a replacement using should.  

If you want one of the "classical patterns," you could use:

 If you happenED to have money (with/on you), could/would you lend me some?

 which is also NOT about the past, but about present/future and is a 2nd conditional as in:

 [link]

and would be more doubtful, more formal and more polite (use of the past tense for a present time condition, which is called distancing) than  

 If you happen to have

but I wanted to correct/use the original pattern of tenses, which are to be found in the original thread. 

Thank you so much, Marius and Mr. Wordy. I think I checked out the mixed conditional section of the website you gave but I didn't see anything in the present tense though.

Also I came up with this. Is this a mixed conditional too?

If that is the case, wouldn't it make more sense to bring him along too?

Sorry to ask many questions but after studying conditionals for a long time, the questons are still pilling up.