As this is called EnglishForums.com, I am shocked at the replies on this thread.

John Donne was indeed a poet. He first studied law and led a rather libertine existence. Then he converted from the Catholic church and became the Royal Chaplain to King James (of the King James Bible...the translation was completed before Donne became an Anglican). Later, he was Dean of St. Paul's Cathedral.

While he was Dean of St. Pauls, he wrote, and preached, a number of sermons. These are pieces of prose, not poetry, although good prose is usually poetic, too. One series written after a severe illness was published as Devotions Upon Emergent Occasions in 1624.

Devotions XVII is a source of several of the most famous quotations in the English language.

From the second half of the sermon: "No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee. Neither can we call this a begging of misery, or a borrowing of misery, as though we were not miserable enough of ourselves, but must fetch in more from the next house, in taking upon us the misery of our neighbours. Truly it were an excusable covetousness if we did, for affliction is a treasure, and scarce any man hath enough of it." (This is from an edition that has made the spelling and capitalization conform to modern practices.)

Tolling of a bell is repeated pealing of a single church bell. It was done in many places to announce someone had died. It was nine tolls for a man, I believe it was seven for a woman and five for a child of either sex. This is where the saying "Nine tellers make the man" comes from. It used to be the "telling" of a bell that "told" everyone who had died. In some english dialects, this got corrupted to "tailors". So, some think that it is "Nine tailors make the man" , as in it takes nine tailors to make a suit.

I am intrigued as to why you think the replies on this thread are shocking.

Do you expect everyone to know where the words "for whom the bell tolls come from?"

What exactly is your problem? I am an eduated man of literature, mainly French and German and I only knew that the phrase came from some Donne poem and yes I had an idea as to what it meant, but yes the full details were unknown to me.

Do you honestly expect us all to know what you know?

Tell me how much does a can of beans cost in the Supermarket? Without going to look!!!

Get back to the real world!!

This is a very interesting discussion. But could somebody please explain and provide some examples to me how to use the words thy, thine, thou and thee? I've checked the dictionary but get confused, because I found the meaning of thy = thine and thee = thou.

Best regards,