We have partnered with TradePub to bring you free industry magazines and resources - no coupons or credit cards required!
Visit: englishforums.tradepub.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
Cool Breeze
+
688636
Thu, 19 Mar 09 04:22 PM
ISU_152“ All nations in the world have many causes to be proud and some cause for shame. Russia is not best and not worst. You cannot find something extraordinary in Russian history except a many imagination of anti-soviet propagandists.”
Right. I was originally writing about the lack of freedom of speech and distortion of history in Russia, not wars. Your links take me to what historians call "kinship wars". I have heard of these border skirmishes but never bothered to learn every detail. What I meant is that Finland didn't try to attack and occupy Russia/the Soviet Union after becoming independent in 1917. If one looks at a map, it's rather easy to see why... 
CB
Joined on
Fri, Apr 7 2006
Senior Member
3,965
"I hope you'll all live to be 150 years old - and the last voice you hear is mine!" Frank Sinatra on stage in Oslo, Norway, 28 September 1991
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ruslana
+
688645
Thu, 19 Mar 09 04:58 PM
The topic is also about freedom of speech in the US, China, and other countries, CB.  From my part, being a citizen of Russia, I still do think that freedom of speech (as well as distorting of history) here is not much worse, as well as it's not much better, than in other big countries. So there's no point to be so obsessed with that. Btw, strictly speaking, distortion of history is not the topic. But it may concern it from the next point of view: Freedom of speech = the right to state things you want Stating things you want = (may lead to) distortion of history consequently:
Freedom of speech = distortion of history
So: 1) Is there freedom of speech in Russia, if you have distortion of history here? 2) Is freedom of speech really a good thing, if it may cause distortion of history?
Joined on
Sat, Dec 17 2005
Senior Member
3,671
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Cool Breeze
+
688732
Thu, 19 Mar 09 09:55 PM
Ruslana“The topic is also about freedom of speech in the US, China, and other countries, CB.  From my part, being a citizen of Russia, I still do think that freedom of speech (as well as distorting of history) here is not much worse, as well as it's not much better, than in other big countries. So there's no point to be so obsessed with that. ”
Anyone can think and write freely what they think of freedom of speech in any particular country. All kinds of comparisons are of course also possible, the way you have just done. You have your opinions and I have mine and we can both express them on these forums, and so can everybody else. It's pointless to try to tell me what I should and shouldn't write about.
I don't want to deal with every country in every post just to please you. I have criticised China many times in other threads. I have also criticised the USA for torture and other unpleasant things. Some Chinese people have expressed their dislike of what I wrote, nor were all Americans contented with my opinions. My post about the return to Soviet-style writing of history in modern Russia was prompted by a piece of news in the Finnish media. Perhaps "covert censorship" would be a better term for offering school children incorrect information about Russia's recent history in schoolbooks than "lack of freedom of speech." This is because, for a while, books that told the truth were used. Now they have in effect been censored.
You need not worry. I'll write about other countries whenever the opportunity presents itself. Besides, if you think it so important, why don't you do it yourself instead of asking me to write?
CB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Cool Breeze
+
688904
Fri, 20 Mar 09 10:06 AM
Ruslana“From my part, being a citizen of Russia, I still do think that freedom of speech (as well as distorting of history) here is not much worse, as well as it's not much better, than in other big countries.”
This is what the latest report (2007) of Reporters Without Borders says about press freedom in the world. Russia is at 144 and I think there are two big countries behind it: Saudi Arabia and China. Both are very undemocratic and thus it isn't at all surprising that they don't have a free press.
This quote is about Russia:
"Russia (144th) is not progressing. Anna Politkovskaya’s murder in October 2006, the failure to punish those responsible for murdering journalists, and the still glaring lack of diversity in the media, especially the broadcast media, weighed heavily in the evaluation of press freedom in Russia."
Dozens of journalists have been killed in Russia in the past few years, but no one has been convicted of these murders. It is obvious that the rulers of the country don't want anyone to be caught and sentenced to jail.
And the USA:
"There were slightly fewer press freedom violations in the United States (48th) and blogger Josh Wolf was freed after 224 days in prison. But the detention of Al-Jazeera’s Sudanese cameraman, Sami Al-Haj, since 13 June 2002 at the military base of Guantanamo and the murder of Chauncey Bailey in Oakland in August mean the United States is still unable to join the lead group."
Very true. However, the United States is miles ahead of Russia or China because of the basic fact that journalists can - and do - criticise the president and the government. The most illustrious case was probably the Watergate Affair, which compelled President Nixon to resign. Despite what Reporters Without Borders says above about the USA, I think the image the country has in foregn eyes has little or nothing to do with the lack of press freedom. There's enough of that. The sordid image has been created by US actions abroad and its blatant disregard of international law. The American view seems to have been that other countries cannot possibly have legitimate interests of their own and the US foreign policy equals issuing demands that must be met. Anyone with such an attitude is bound to become a loner.
The free US press has criticised George W. Bush and his government freely without fear. Criticising the country's leaders in nationwide media isn't possible in Russia and China today. It all boils down to that.
CB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ruslana
+
688949
Fri, 20 Mar 09 01:19 PM
Cool Breeze“It's pointless to try to tell me what I should and shouldn't write about.”
I know, that's why I have never tried to tell you, "CB, you should write about this and should not write about that". OK, let Reporters Without Borders, to which you have reffered time and again, be the truth of first instance.  Cool Breeze“You need not worry.”
Nah, I am not worried at all, come off!  I'm enjoying a great sunny day out here that predicates soon coming of spring! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Cool Breeze
+
689241
Sat, 21 Mar 09 09:28 AM
Ruslana“ Cool Breeze“It's pointless to try to tell me what I should and shouldn't write about.”
I know, that's why I have never tried to tell you, "CB, you should write about this and should not write about that".  ”
Oh, I see. In that case I misunderstood this completely:
"The topic is also about freedom of speech in the US, China, and other countries, CB"
CB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ISU_152
+
689580
Sun, 22 Mar 09 11:19 AM
OK , distortion of history in good theme for another tread ... sometimes its looking like we are all from parallel worlds - so different versions of history we have
Joined on
Tue, May 22 2007
Full Member
197
Anarchy - order’s mother
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Cool Breeze
+
690272
Tue, 24 Mar 09 08:38 AM
ISU_152“ OK , distortion of history in good theme for another tread ... sometimes its looking like we are all from parallel worlds - so different versions of history we have
”
About half a dozen young Putin-led Russians from Estonia demonstrated against a book published in Finland yesterday about the Soviet invasion of Estonia in the 1940s. I find it ludicrous that anyone from abroad should come and tell us what we should publish and read. I know that since there is little freedom of speech in Russia, such a book in Russian is inconceivable and the authors might lose their lives. In the free world anyone can write and talk about anything, be it for or against anyone. About 300 Finns came to wonder at the demostrators and listen to the authors of the book talk about it. The police were there as well, but the Russians, who gave the impression they were on a spring picnic taking pictures of one another, behaved very well and caused no disturbance.
Many Finns and Estonians are old enough to personally remember the events of the 40s. These demonstrators say the Russian invasion and occupation of the Baltic states is a myth. I don't think they really believe what they say. They remind me of two American Mormons I met a few years ago. They also had their own "truth" about something, the lunar journeys. And these guys were serious!
In all seriousness, the Mormons told me that the Americans never landed on the moon. They landed in an Australian desert instead. The Mormons had a professor who could prove it. No doubt the Putin youngsters also have a professor who can prove Estonians insisted on becoming a part of Stalin's ruthless dictatorship and being deported to Siberia.
CB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ISU_152
+
691264
Thu, 26 Mar 09 02:05 PM
Usally such books contents nothing except falsehoods . Cool Breeze“Many Finns and Estonians are old enough to personally remember the events of the 40s”
Many Russians too - as example remember flowers, with were estonian people welcomed soviet troops
|
|
|
|
|
|