ISU_152

“Many Russians too - as example remember flowers, with were estonian people welcomed soviet troops”

I visited Tallinn in 1976 for the first time because my Estonian friend wasn't allowed to leave the Soviet Union and visit me. She told me watching Finnish television was her only entertainment and that she was certain the Soviet rule would never end. I consoled her by telling her that so far in history, no tyranny had lasted forever. We couldn't of course talk about things like this in public places, only in her flat. Now the tyranny and fear are over!

I assume Russian historians also contend that Finns gave flowers to invading Russians 200 years ago? And we probably gave roses to Russian troops on 30th November 1939 when Stalin began bombing Finland? Helsinki was targeted twice on that day.

By the same logic, Russians gave flowers to Hitler's troops when they invaded the Soviet Union, right?

CB

ISU_152

“Flowers - is historical fact ”

Unfortunately your English is so inadequate that I just don't understand everything you say, ISU. Hitler and Stalin, the two major dictators involved in World War II, had divided eastern Europe among themselves before the war began. Finland and the Baltic states were supposed to be Stalin's territory. It is of course possible that a handful of people gave flowers to the invading Russians, but naturally the majority of Estonians wanted to remain independent and not be ruled by Stalin, who had already killed millions of Soviets in the 30s. People were justly scared to death of him. You can read about the pact here.

Germans suffered from mental anguish on account of Hitler's atrocities long after the war was over; perhaps some still do, even though modern Germans are not to blame for what Hitler did and what many Germans believed in in those days. The situation in Russia is different: the rulers make believe and many people believe that the Soviet Union's reputation is unblemished, that Stalin never attacked a foreign country. This killer of at least 20 million Soviet people is hailed as a hero by many Russians. The situation is tragic and very sad, and is unlikely to improve the image Russia has abroad.

The Russians may persuade themselves to believe whatever they like but that won't change historical facts. For that to happen, Russian leaders would have to eat humble pie. I don't see that happening. The deception persists.

CB

ISU_152

“

Cool Breeze

“ but naturally the majority of Estonians wanted to remain independent and not be ruled by Stalin”

- somebody trying to calculate ?
”

No one is or was trying to count any votes. Stalin set up a puppet government in Estonia and understandably it never organised an election. Consequently it was not possible to count the votes as none were cast.

Fortunately he didn't succeed in invading Finland. During the Winter War (1939-1940) Stalin's officers had to shoot some reluctant Russian soldiers in the back to force them to advance into Finnish territory. If Stalin had had his way, you would now be writing about Finns having given flowers to Stalin's troops and no doubt you would be convinced that Finland joined the Soviet Union voluntarily.

Stalin actually did set up a puppet government in Finland on 2 December 1939 and this "government," which was led by Otto Wille Kuusinen, requested "help" from the Soviet Union in pretty much the same way Stalin's puppet governments in the Baltic states asked for help or permission to join the Soviet Union. All the ministers were communists approved by Stalin although Radio Moscow lied to Muscovites that it was a multi-party government. Stalin was naive enough to believe that Finns would support Kuusinen's "government" thanks to the numerous improvements it promised for Finns. By late January he realised that supporting the "government" he had created was futile and it was officially disbanded on 12 March 1940.

Doubtless you have lots of documents that "prove" that the burdensome Winter War experience of Finland and Finns was actually beneficial for us and that Finns yearned to be ruled by Stalin in 1939 and have been hankering after dictatorial Russian rule ever since those days.

In an opinion poll conducted about two years ago in Finland, Finns were asked what kind of people they wouldn't like to have as their neighbours. Gypsies scored a few percent, drug addicts were quite high on the list of unfavourables and 23 percent said they wouldn't like a Russian for their neighbour. No other nationality was mentioned in the replies. "Truths" like those you represent help keep the popularity of Russia at a minimum in Finland and in the Baltic states, which lost their freedom for decades.

To guarantee a free press and society, the Baltic states have joined NATO. Presidents like George W. Bush have kept the popularity of joining NATO at 20 to 25 percent in Finland but as time goes by and Russian demonstrators become more frequent in Finland, we may reconsider the advantages and disadvantages of membership.

Incidentally, for all those who take an interest in the Soviet society and want to learn how things were done and how the bureaucracy worked, I recommend a thick book entitled The Russians. It was written by Hedrick Smith and first published in 1976. Smith worked for three years as The New York Times Bureau Chief in Moscow and, in his own words, "ranged as widely as time and the Soviet authorities would permit."

CB

A Russian human rights activist and well-known critic of the Russian regime was beaten up in Moscow last Tuesday. The leader of For Human Rights organisation Lev Ponomarjov was attacked in front of his home by a group of men who took his cell phone. Ponomarjov had to go to hospital after the attack.

Ponomarjov has been vocal about the fact that young Russians haven't been given enough correct information on the Soviet Gulag. They have been fed myths about Dictator Josif Stalin instead.  - Reuters

CB

I'm afraid that you have overlooked the Cold War and the USAs anti-Communist stance. American society is raised with a very right wing view, in comparison with the rest of the world. I've even heard people describe Barrack Obama as a socialist/communist, yet in global terms he is a moderate right wing politician.

When you talk about 'freedom of speech', you fail to remember that criticising the US government is unpatriotic and anti-American, according to the Patriot Act. The rights of 'Habeas Corpus' and trial by twelve men and true did not apply to thousands of people held without any charge for years in Guantanemo Bay. Where was the freedom of speech during the McCarthy era?

The United States military has performed some of the worst atrocities since Hitler and Stalin, but avoid prosecution due to the veto on the UN Security Council. To the horror of many American troops, civilians were bombed and then gunned down in Korea. The American government never acknowledged any wrong doing ever by any of its troops - until footage came out from Abu Ghraid.

Do not misunderstand me - America has given the world plenty of good things, and most of iys people are friendly, decent human beings. It is far from the Utopia that it claims to be, however, and so is the United Kingdom, where I live. We should remember that we are all proud of our own nations, even with their flaws.

Russia is a very modern country, and is very different from the Stalin era and even from the days of the Soviet Union. Historically, this is also the nation that first put a man into space (and first put a woman into space - far more politically correct than the USA!), the country of Peter the Great, Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky and Shostakovich, the country that was wise enough to name a whole Muscovite street after the English town of Rochdale (where I was born, just like Anna 'Pushing Up Daisies' Friel), the land of Tolstoy, Dostoievsky and Chekov (not the one from Star Trek), the country that gave us the second most entertaining politician of the last 30 years, Boris Yeltsin (second, only to your own Dubya). If it hadn't been for Eisenstein, American film directors would not have been rolling prams down stairs in a cliched attempt at drama for the last 50 years.

Putin is probably not a very nice man, but I wouldn't want Gordon Brown or Tony Blair in my house either.

To summarise, I wouldn't believe everything that the American media tells you about Russia, and you should visit the country and see what it's like, so you can form your own genuine perspective - it is a beautiful country, not perfect but far from the country that the Western media portrays it to be.

As for 'political correctness' - it is veiled bigotry. It is used by bigots to try and cover up their inherent hatred. As we all know, it is far more revealing of a person that which goes unsaid, not their spoken words, and that their actions speak louder than their words.