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Cool Breeze  +  804189 Fri, 03 Jul 09 09:30 AM
Adrenochrome
“You may have noticed that the second article I refered you to is regarding Scandanavian Sterilisation from 1930s up to 1970s. Hitler died in 1945, yet the eugenics continued.”

Finland is not accountable for what happened in other countries, just as England isn't responsible for things that occur in France, for example. With regard to Finland, you seem to be even more in the dark than I even though you criticised my ignorance in an earlier post of yours.


All sessions of the Finnish parliament are open for anyone to attend and public records are of course kept of all legislation. Some parliamentary sessions are televised. As far as eugenics in Finland is concerned, this is a brief summary of the most important laws since the year 1930.


The very first statutory law involving eugenics in Finland was passed in 1935. According to it, mentally deficient and insane people could be sterilised without their approval if "certain conditions were met". (I don't know what "certain conditions" meant.) In 1950 some amendments were made to this law. Sterilisation now required the woman's consent.


The most recent law was passed in 1970. From then  on, sterilisation has been possible only if a woman asks for it.


Of course anyone can write whatever rubbish they choose to further their interests and pursue their goals  -  whatever they are. People in politically important countries are often ignorant of what goes on in politically unimportant countries, which makes them all the more gullible and good targets for desired "information". You remind me of a Manchester, UK, construction worker who asked me in Palma de Mallorca in the mid-eighties: "Do you get foreign news in Finland?" (I watch the BBC daily.) My reply: "Yes, we do. Do you in England?"


I am not saying that there is nothing shameful in Finland's early legislation regarding eugenics. I do think that many other countries have an even better reason for repentance, though.


CB

Joined on Fri, Apr 7 2006
Senior Member 3,928
"I hope you'll all live to be 150 years old - and the last voice you hear is mine!" Frank Sinatra on stage in Oslo, Norway, 28 September 1991
Adrenochrome  +  860236 Thu, 13 Aug 09 03:16 PM
Dear CoolBreeze

 

you have answered my point perfectly - only in 1950 was the consent matter passed, which a mentally ill person would be allowed to have someone make their decision for them, hence by-passing that legislation. A clear loop-hole. My comment about your ignorance was also not a general comment, just regarding the eugenics aspect. Censorship of the media and education system comes in many shapes and forms - non-discussion being just as much a form of censorship as altering facts (as Stalin was famous for doing in Russia). In Britain we also allow and even advance the cause of the 'urban myth', eg teaching in schools that before Christopher Columbus, people believed that the planet was flat not a spherical obloid, yet Copernicus, the Phoenicians, the ancient Greeks etc were all perfectly aware that the planet was a ball. This was due to religious influence.

As you watch the BBC daily, you will also be aware that our House of Copmmons debates are televised live daily, all proceedings being detailed verbatim in Hansard. Nowhere in Hansard does it mention the UK selling Israel nuclear fusion technology and equipment, but our government did during the early 1960s! Also, as politicians can't answer a straight question, be completely honest or avoid using 'spin', this is completely useless. They hide behind "lies, damn lies and statistics" (the Duke of Wellington). Personally, I'm with Berthold Brecht - the government sould meet every five years and elect a new public.

 

No country is politically unimportant, especially on domestic issues. Who would think that a small bankrupt country such as North korea would consume so much time in other countries?

 

Of course we get foreign news in the UK, French and German news channels are available (at a cost) and, as you will have noticed when watching the BBC, it is headline news in Britain if an American farts. The BBC is more obsessed with America, where it still has viewers, than with the UK. Strangely, for an Anglican Lutheran state, three of the last five heads of the BBC have been Jewish and the current one is supposedly Christian but has a Jewish wife, and the BBC refused to anger its Israeli and American followers and would not show a DEC Oxfam appeal for the Palestinians.

 

I do not believe, nor have I suggested, that you are an ignorant person. It is clearly apparent that you are not. I only suggested that such a well educated person as yourself being unaware of the evil and vile eugenics carried out within your own country reflected that some things are still hidden. Ergo, your media and school system is not completely beyond censorship, or you would have known of these matters without having to research them. It is entirely the fact that you are not an ignorant person that so clearly depicts my point about censorship across the globe.

 

In the West it is often easy to criticise other countries whilst not holding our own systems and establishments to the same high standards that we criticise others for.

 

I readily agree that I am not as conversant in Finnish affairs and history as I am with other countries. It is difficult to know of every nation (189 active UN member states, plus observer status for the Knights Templar and Hospitalliers) and over 6,000 years each - an impossible task. At the moment I am researching the Euskardi peoples of Spain and France. One day Scandanavia will come under my remit, but until then I will have to limit myself to several authors and composers from Finland (and, of course, the Eurovision Song Contest).  Long live Lordi!

 

All the best 

Joined on Wed, Apr 8 2009
Full Member 138
Cool Breeze  +  948808 Wed, 21 Oct 09 09:47 AM
Cool Breeze
“Finland used to be the No. 1 country on the Reporters Without Borders press freedom list. We are now at No. 5 and I don't remember the reason why we lost first place. It was something very insignificant and temporary, though. Hopefully we'll get back to No. 1 soon.”

A new press freedom index was published yesterday by Reporters Without Borders. It puts Finland back at the top. This quotation outlines the criteria used in assessing freedom of the press and other media:


"To compile this index, Reporters Without Borders prepared a questionnaire with 40
criteria that assess the state of press freedom in each country. It includes every kind
of violation directly affecting journalists (such as murders, imprisonment, physical
attacks and threats) and news media (censorship, confiscation of newspaper issues,
searches and harassment). Ánd it includes the degree of impunity enjoyed by those
responsible for these press freedom violations.


"It also measures the level of self-censorship in each country and the ability of the
media to investigate and criticise. Financial pressure, which is increasingly common,
is also assessed and incorporated into the final score.


"The questionnaire takes account of the legal framework for the media (including
penalties for press offences, the existence of a state monopoly for certain kinds of
media and how the media are regulated) and the level of independence of the public
media. It also reflects violations of the free flow of information on the Internet.
Reporters Without Borders has taken account not only of abuses attributable to the
state, but also those by armed militias, clandestine organisations and pressure
groups."


You can access the site here.


All the Scandinavian countries share the number 1 position with Ireland, which doesn't surprise me. Both the UK and the USA have gone up on the list. However, some European countries have nothing to brag about:


"Europe long set an example in press freedom but several European nations have fallen significantly in this year’s index. Even if the first 13 places are still held by European countries, others such as France (43rd), Slovakia (44th) and Italy (49th) continue their descent, falling eight, 37 and five places respectively. In so doing, they have given way to young democracies in Africa (Mali, South Africa and Ghana) and the western hemisphere (Uruguay and Trinidad and Tobago)."


CB

Adrenochrome  +  959179 Sun, 01 Nov 09 08:01 PM
Thanks for the link, the list makes interesting reading. I congratulate your proud nation on reclaiming the top spot, though feel that the UK and America should not have climbed up the ladder. I don't feel that the traditional media have improved in either of those countries. In fact, I feel that the UK may have climbes up by default and deception.

 

For the last couple of months, one UK daily newspaper has devoted its front page every day to Peter Andre and Kate Price, notably the latter, and the end of their marriage. With such daily insights into Kates self promotion, I fail to see this as either honest reporting (surely she is just manufacturing non-entity stories to keep the paper happy) nor is it really reporting. As I've already discussed with yourself, non reporting of events is just as much a case of censorship as is supplying false or bias information. The worlds media seemed to go mad when Michael Jackson died, and certainly many more important events were overlooked in both the UK and USA, so that space for Jacko speculation could be created. Rather than lying to the UK public, our media now just ignores news and speculates on celebrities instead. I do not believe that the list has taken this into account.

 

As for Italy, that is no surprise as Silvio Berlusconi owns 70% of the countries media (tv and papers).

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