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Latest post Thu, Feb 19 2009 2:09 PM by Anonymous. 3 replies.
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Palinkasocsi  +  611409 Mon, 15 Dec 08 04:44 PM
Dear Friends,

From earlier discussions I know a lot about the relation between freedom vs. liberty; I still have two questions, though:

1. The dictionaries I use consider 'freedom' to be more general than 'liberty'. They fail, however, to explicate in what sense.
2. Somewhere I have heard that one of them (not sure which one) implies a state which is won by force, while the other is innate. Is that true?

Thanks a lot.

Palinkasocsi
Joined on Mon, Nov 26 2007
Hungary
Full Member 268
Avangi  +  611417 Mon, 15 Dec 08 05:16 PM
There's been so much written about these concepts you'll have a hard time pinning them down.  They're often used interchangeably.  When you look in most dictionaries you'll probably see several useages listed for both of them.

The "won by force" useage  falls more often to "freedom" than to liberty.  The "inate" useage falls more often to liberty.

People who feel passionately about the concepts also tend to feel passionately about the definitions.  Jefferson lists liberty as a God-given right in the US Declaration of Independence.  But that doesn't mean it can't be taken away and won back by force.

I agree with you that a claim that one term is more general than the other is useless without specifics.

  - A.
Joined on Mon, Nov 19 2007
Veteran Member 8,172
". . . le plaisir delicieux et toujours nouveau d'une occupation inutile." - Henri de Regnier
Palinkasocsi, 341 days ago
Thank you very much for your help, Avangi!

Best,

Palinkasocsi
Anonymous, 275 days ago
Dear Palinkasocsi,

In a great deal of contemporary English writing, the two terms are used synonymously -- the writer doesn't necessarily distinguish an apparent difference between the two terms. Even dictionary definitions, as you noted, overlap considerably. However, correctly or incorrectly, I believe that there is a difference between the two terms, but that distinction doesn't lie on the fault line you propose. As an alternative, please consider the following example:

In the 1860's southern U.S. states, slaves were given their freedom (no longer bound to servitude). With that 'right' restored, some former slaves took advantage of their new liberty and headed West to live as they chose.

In this context, I consider 'freedom' to be more fundamental and should be considered a 'right', however it was controlled by humans and imposed on others. 'Liberty' in this case required freedom as an essential prerequisite, but could have been limited by things there not inflicted by others, such as the physical condition and age of the West-bound former slave.

I don't know if this distinction is shared by others, but it is one that I have adopted.

Regards,

Phil

 

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