Georgia - a peaceloving genocide

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Ant_222  #555590  Sat, 16 Aug 08 07:34 PM
Dominik
 What do you think about this article?

It says: Tskhinvali, where most of the fighting took place, mostly intact and with "little evidence of a high death toll." 

Russia News have shown LOTS of damage and destruction in Tskhinval, saying the city has been essentially destroyed. And this kind of evidence is a rare case when it is easy to see and hard to falsify.

I don't know what the author wants to say by referring to the interview with a doctor who said the hospital had treated only several hundred patients. Can a hospital take through it 2000 patients in a space of a day or two (until the Russian army came)? Also take into account that, as per Russian news, the Tskhinval hospital was a target of Georgian artillery and even GRADs, which were using splinter shells that don't inflict much damage to buildings but kill everything alive.

Under heavy bombardment, most of medical treatment was delivered in cellars, for they were the only (relatively) safe place.

Another evidence hard to fabricate is the number of refugees from S. Ossetia, which is reported to be around 34000, 40% of the population! 

I seriously doubt Russian government is dumb enough to tell a kind of lie that can be checked and disproved so easily.

  
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ISU_152  #555598  Sat, 16 Aug 08 07:58 PM

Dominik , let me show the sites , who i most often use for finding information about this conflict

It is russian livejournal pages , translated bu google servise - sorry , my english skill is too low to translate all massiv manually

[link]|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8  

Ukrainian journalists in heart of fighting [link]|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8One Good man  working all five day of war as news line [link]|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8Russian correspondent  worked in Georgia during the conflict

[link]|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8 

Another Russian correspondent  in Georgia and Ossetia .  [link]|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8 Citizen of Poty city , Georgia

I don't want ot say - in is truth and only truth .  But i belive him better , than another SMI . Sorry , some post too emotional .

About your link - I think HRW  man cant do such sort of conclusion , based only on on one interview  .

  
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Ant_222  #555615  Sat, 16 Aug 08 09:19 PM
Dominik
 What do you think about this article?

Mythmaking in Moscow

 

Hey, Dominik, I just wathced that interview with the dictor (on a site linked by ISU), and you know what? It is true, but the words have bee taken out of context. So here it is:

"You ask me if it is possible that 2000 have been killed? If to take the whole region into account, then I think yes. During the six days that we almost wholly spent in the cellar, the city was intensively bombarded by GRADs and other weapons <cut>. I saw tanks in the city and jets above that were bombarding us. It was a real horror.... to attack civillians this way, in the *** century... Only in our hospital (sic! – Ant) there were 273 wounded, and 45 died (not "dead"), two journalists among them (cut). We damped the bodies in our trauma center because we couldn't get to the morgue due to the shelling."

 Now, let's compare it to the distorted version presented by Washington Post:

"A doctor at Tskhinvali Regional Hospital who was on duty from the afternoon of August 7 told Human Rights Watch that between August 6 to 12 the hospital treated 273 wounded, both military and civilians. . . . The doctor also said that 44 bodies had been brought to the hospital since the fighting began, of both military and civilians. The figure reflects only those killed in the city of Tskhinvali. But the doctor was adamant that the majority of people killed in the city had been brought to the hospital before being buried, because the city morgue was not functioning due to the lack of electricity in the city."

The first distortion is the omission of the doctor's opinion – she did think 2000 was a real figure. Then it's a lie that dead bodies were brought to that hospital – that people died within the hospital. At last, in the last sentence, shelling has been replaced by a modest "lack of electricity" as the reason they couldn't deliver the bodies to the morgue.

  
Dominik  #555627  Sat, 16 Aug 08 10:27 PM
 Here you can read an oryginal text by Human Rights Watch:

[link]

  
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Ant_222  #555635  Sat, 16 Aug 08 11:25 PM
Human Rights Watch seems to be doing a good job. I don't think the reports of this organization are seriously biased. It will be interesting to compare them with the documents of the Russian investigators that have been sent into the area to collect evidence of genocide.
  
Dominik  #555752  Sun, 17 Aug 08 08:44 AM
It would be best if there were independent international experts in the crime of genocide in the region. Victims are on all sides of the conflict and experts from one side only, can be suspected as not objective.
  
Ruslana  #555919  Sun, 17 Aug 08 08:27 PM
Whom would you have in mind as independent international experts, Dominik?

Here's another interesting article to consider. Mostly about western mass media misinterpretations.

[link]

...but it is only the latest and most glaring in a series of Western misrepresentations and misreadings of Russian intentions throughout this sorry episode. They began with the repeated references to Russian "aggression" and "invasion", continued through charges of intended "regime change", and culminated in alarmist reports about Russian efforts to bomb the east-west energy pipeline. None of this, not one bit of it, is true.

Georgia sent troops into South Ossetia. The status of that region – which declared unilateral independence – is anomalous. It is inside Georgia's borders, but outside its control. But one reason why the dispute has not been solved is that the "fudge" over independence brought with it a degree of stability. Georgia's action upset that stability. But did anyone describe it as "aggression"?

Perhaps the most pernicious assumption over the past week, however, is that Russia wanted to effect "regime-change". Russian officials categorically denied this, insisting that they had no business overthrowing an elected leader. You might scoff, but Russia has done nothing that would contradict this. The Kremlin would probably be delighted if Georgians eventually punished their President for his misguided enterprise, but Russia seems to accept that Georgians decide what happens in Georgia.





  
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Dominik  #555934  Sun, 17 Aug 08 09:11 PM
 >Whom would you have in mind as independent international experts, Dominik?

Experts from countries not directly involved in this conflict.

EU is also ready to send peace mission supporting UN and OSCE

  
Dew 2007  #556390  Tue, 19 Aug 08 05:32 AM
Unfortunately, western peacekeeping forces wouldn't have helped Ossetia... Remember episodes when peacekeepers in former Yougoslavia ran away leaving their positions when they were attacked.
That's why Saakashvilly was so insitant on the changing of the Russian ones.
  
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