Grammar question: "extracting some phrase out of a coordinate structure"

Hi Steve,

Generally speaking,  I have trouble understanding clearly what he is asking. I'll go through and try to make some comments. My advice is that you should focus your native speaker skills on ensuring that his sentences and paraphrases sound acceptable, and let him focus on his theories.

I received this question from a Japanese professor that I am having trouble answering:

I am working on the issue of extracting some phrase out of a coordinate structure of the form "[A and B]".  As you know, it is generally not allowed to do so.  For example, "*Which boy did you meet [Susan and --]?  (as a response to "I met Susan and a boy ") is unacceptable.

A: I met Susan and a boy.

B: Which boy did you meet? In a context where there are several boys, this seems like an acceptable question.

 Or "*This is the senator that [I voted for Bill Clinton and Terry met -- in Washington]." is unacceptable.  Yes, this is wrong. But you could say

This is the senator that I voted for and that Terry met in Washington.

But exceptionally, it is possible to do so, as in the case I cited earlier: "What kind of cancer can you [eat herbs and not get --]?" as opposed to "*Which thief have [you identified -- and we have arrested  his accomplice]?"  In this context, I am interested in the kind of a paraphrase that is as faithful to the coordinate construction as possible yet possible in English (marginally, or even if unacceptable, semantically intelligible).  That is why I suggested two possibilities: "What kind of cancer is it that if you eat herbs, you won't get (it)?"

Yess, this seems OK, although it's not a good word order. I'd say

"What kind of cancer is it that you won't get if you eat herbs?". 

(the assumption here is that the coordination at hand is semantically not coordinate but subordiante; namely "and" means something like "if") or "What kind of cancer can you eat herbs so that you won't get (it)?"

This seems wrong. I guess you could say  

"For what kind of cancer can you eat herbs, so that you won't get it?"

(this departs from my assumption of "and" being conditioinal in this context at least).   Could you choose between the two or suggest a better one that is as close to the original sentence semantically and constructioanlly as possible, in your intuitive judgment?

How about 'If you eat herbs, what kind of cancer will you not get?'

If you can, try to get him to deal with examples that are not questions, because he is tending to get into trouble by mixing together clauses that are questions and clauses that are not questions.

Best wishes, Clive

I know exactly what he's talking about, with the possible exception of the purpose of the paraphrasing exercise, and I don't have an answer.  It seems to me that this is a rather advanced research project in linguistics.  It might require hours of introspection to formulate a coherent response.  It's not the sort of question that can be answered even superficially in a forum format.

It's an interesting question, however, and if I have the time I may be able to think more about it and respond to it later.

Just to be sure I have it, I believe the problem is to characterize the (presumably rare) conditions under which extraction out of the coordinate structure results in a grammatical sentence.  Moreover, the questioner believes or suspects that the conditions are related to the specific semantic value of and. Can you confirm?

CJ 

I don't think the paraphrase is uniformly the same in all cases.  Something involving in order to, that is, some sort of infinitive of purpose, is often a good paraphrase.

What kinds of aches can you take a pill and relieve __ ?  [take a pill in order to relieve (them)]

That's the sort of thing you can buy insurance and not worry about __.  [buy insurance in order not to worry about (it)]

What kind of cancer can you eat herbs and not get __? [eat herbs in order not to get (it)] 

But not always:

What did he wake up and see __? [wake up and then see (it)] 

Some cases may be considered ambiguous in this respect: 

What did Henry get out of bed and put on __? [get out of bed [and then / ?in order to] put (it) on]

What did Mary go to the store and buy __? [go to the store [and then / ?in order to] buy (it)]

What did she go into the kitchen and get __? [go into the kitchen [and then / ?in order to] get (it)] 

So there can be a temporal element to the and as well as an element of purpose (or conditional element).

CJ