Mkyol  +  457144 Wed, 26 Dec 07 10:56 AM "My mother had had an intense passion for education, and I started to learn English since junior high school." Is that right? I want to signify the fact that it was my mother's intense passion for education (which preceded in time) that made me learn English since junior high school by making the sentence past perfect. Or should I just use one had?           Mkyol Joined on Tue, Dec 18 2007 South Korea Full Member 155 Tenses, Past Perfect, Learn English

	Rotter  +  457152 Wed, 26 Dec 07 11:33 AM My mother had had an intense passion for education before I started junior high school. My mother had an intense passion for education when I was at junior high school. We write 'had had' to indicate the past perfect tense. You should push one action before the other action. 1. You are telling this today. 2. You may have studied in 1930 or 1980. 3. Mum was very eager to educate her kids before you were eligible to attend school. Rotter Joined on Sun, Jul 24 2005 Japan Regular Member 655 Я люблю российских девочек. Tenses, Past Perfect

	Mkyol  +  457154 Wed, 26 Dec 07 11:40 AM Hi, thanks for the post, but I want to relate the fact that my mother had an intense passion for education.. which led me to learning English since junior high school. The examples you have there doesn't seem to relate the two ideas together.. and seems it's only about 'my mother' Mkyol Tenses, Learning English

	Rotter  +  457160 Wed, 26 Dec 07 12:16 PM You see to write the past perfect tense there should be two past events. "My mother had had an intense passion for education, and I started to learn English since junior high school." In the above you wrote 'had had' . So if you want to keep it as it is, I would write the following. "My mother had had an intense passion for education before I started to learn English since junior high school." Rotter Tenses, Past Perfect, Learn English

	Yankee  +  457227 Wed, 26 Dec 07 05:27 PM Hi Mkyol I'd like to point out a few things: - The word 'since' does not work in your sentence as it is written.  It seems that you want to use the word 'since' to talk about 'from a point in the past up to now', but that doesn't work well with the verb 'started'.  The start of something is usually a very short point in time and does not take place over a period of time. - The word 'since' is usually used with the present perfect continuous, and in that verb tense the verb is extremely connected to the present ('up to now').  To talk about the past time when something began, you need the simple past tense, but you can't use the simple past tense (started) together with the time word 'since' as you have done. - Using 'had had' would suggest something that was finished/ended before you 'started' -- i.e. she was no longer interested at the time you started. But that wouldn't really make much sense in your sentence. You should use the simple present tense if your mother is still alive and still has this interest.  I would suggest rewriting your sentence in one of these ways: If you want to talk about a time from the past up to the present, you could write it this way: "My mother has an intense passion for education, and I have been learning English since junior high school." If your mother is now dead, or if all of the verbs (events/activities/states) are in the finished past, you could write it this way: "My mother had an intense passion for education, and I started to learn English in junior high school." I can't think of any really logical way to use had had (past perfect) in your sentence. Yankee Joined on Sat, Apr 15 2006 Connecticut, USA Veteran Member 6,495 Amy "You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus." - Mark Twain Simple Present, Verbs, Tenses, Present Tenses, Past Perfect, Simple Past, Present Perfect, Past Tenses, Learning English, Learn English

	Rotter  +  457264 Wed, 26 Dec 07 06:42 PM Yankee I read your comments. I would agree to say the word 'since' usually goes with present perfect continuous tense. I don't think the following sentence is incorrect. My mother had had an intense passion for education before I started junior high school. Please tell me if it is wrong. Rotter Tenses, Present Perfect

	Yankee  +  457277 Wed, 26 Dec 07 07:03 PM Hi Rotter I think the use of the past perfect is completely unnecessary and also a little confusing in that sentence.  To me, the use of the past perfect (in the sentence as it is written) suggests that you want to make sure that the reader understands that 'my mother's interest had ended before I started'. Why else would you go to the trouble of using the otherwise unnecessary verb tense? However, you could add some words in order to make the use of the past perfect more appropriate: My mother had (already) had an intense passion for education for years before I started school. That's my take. Yankee Verbs, Tenses, Past Perfect