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"have + to" versus "have + object + to + V"

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Anonymous, 349 days ago
 
MrPedantic
“

MrP is saying that the "subjective/objective" distinction is fallacious: every obligation is naturally a combination of subjective and objective requirements.

MrP

”


Is it the intention of each speaker here to indicate both subjective and objective modality in each case?

1. I've had wonderful evening. I must see you again. can I have your number?

2. Jack, my husband, has been on a tour of duty in Afghanistan for six months now. I was expecting him home for Christmas, but, apparently, he must stay until the end of January due to unrest the north of the country.
MrPedantic  +  592931 Mon, 24 Nov 08 10:19 AM

You would do better to compare like with like:

1. I've had a wonderful evening. I must see you again. Can I have your number?
2. I've had a wonderful evening. I have to see you again. Can I have your number?

How does the (rather prescriptively dualistic) "objective/subjective modality" approach work here?

MrP
MrPedantic
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Anonymous, 349 days ago
Your like with like example does not answer the question/s about this comment "every obligation is naturally a combination of subjective and objective requirements.". I think it is you who seaches for pure dualism, MrP, but I see things on a cline, a scale.

Your like with like epistemic examples, show that there seems to be little difference between epistemic must and have to, and that's fine. Try the same with a few deontic examples.

Please could you tell us where the speaker expresses subjective obligation here?

He made me do it!
Anonymous, 349 days ago
<<I've had a wonderful evening. I have to see you again.?>>

Isn't that an American import? I mean, how long has that epistemic use of have to existed in British English?
Anonymous, 349 days ago
Folks, are both these (epistemic modality) examples xsOK in your variety of English?

What's wrong with you? Did she say something to you? She must have said something to you for you to behave in this way.
What's wrong with you? Did she say something to you? She has to have said something to you for you to behave in this way.
Anonymous, 348 days ago
Folks, do you read these as semantically and pragmatically interchangeable?

If you simply must see me again, I will agree to another meeting.
If you simply have to see me again, I will agree to another meeting.
Anonymous, 348 days ago
CalJim in Feb 06, wrote:

'Actually, the subjective/objective distinction is of extremely little importance to American speakers.  Typically "must" is used as an epistemic modal almost exclusively in ordinary conversation, and "have to" as a deontic modal.  That is, "must" is used to show logical necessity; "have to" is used to show situational requirements (objective, possibly?) or social obligation (subjective, possibly?).  The two are interchanged at times but these interchanges are the variants, not the usual usage.'


http://www.englishforums.com/English/HasToAsAHelpingVerb/2/czjzl/Post.htm
MrPedantic  +  594121 Tue, 25 Nov 08 11:03 AM

Anonymous
“<<I've had a wonderful evening. I have to see you again.?>>

Isn't that an American import? I mean, how long has that epistemic use of have to existed in British English?”

I'm not sure why you call it "epistemic", old chap; but an example can be found in the letters of R. L. Stevenson; so the business about "American import" looks like a misapprehension. 

MrP
MrPedantic
Anonymous, 347 days ago
< but an example can be found in the letters of R. L. >

Could you post it?

<I'm not sure why you call it "epistemic", old chap;>

Isn't it? That use of "have to" is odd for me, so you'll have to tell me what kind of modality it is.
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